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Vincent & France's new project
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vincent9993
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys. I admit I would have overlooked the dual fuel line part (even if I knew it needed it).

The jury's still out on the transmission selection. I'm leaning towards a Subaru unit but have not rulled out the T2.

Thanks for the heater info, going to come handy.
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vincent9993
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I'm thinking of routing stainless hard lines for fuel supply and return, what size should I be looking for? Thniking 5mm or 6mm? TIA.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a pressure side line 3/8in (close to 10mm),-6 line should be used. And either the 3/8in or 5/16in (8mm) -5 will work for a return line. Finding -5 fittings is more difficult then -6.
When I plumbed my Manxter for a front gas tank I use the 3/8in steel line with -6 fittings for both pressure and return.
I also used the fittings for the fuel rails from Outfront and their braided hose that goes between the fuel rails. They are -6 size.
The fuel return regulator for a Subaru is 8mm slip on hose fitting. You can get a aftermarket regulator that has a AN fitting.
If you ever decide to go with a turbo setup 3/8in is the minimum size you would want to use for pressure side.
Stainless hard lines are nice, it is just a little harder to work with and can require different a different flaring tool.
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Iguana
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure this will open a can on worms but anyway, I wouldn't use stainless steel fuel line as the potential for cracks due to stress etc is significantly increased.

Coated steel is the norm and I would stick with that.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iguana wrote:
I am sure this will open a can on worms but anyway, I wouldn't use stainless steel fuel line as the potential for cracks due to stress etc is significantly increased.

Coated steel is the norm and I would stick with that.


I second that.

A lot a stress is added at the flared ends.
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vincent9993
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iguana wrote:
I am sure this will open a can on worms but anyway, I wouldn't use stainless steel fuel line as the potential for cracks due to stress etc is significantly increased.

Coated steel is the norm and I would stick with that.


That's a good point... I may re-consider SS and opt for coated steel as suggested. I'm simply trying to build it right the 1st time.

I don't think you're letting the worms out at all... If we were to discuss fuel pump placement, that would be a different story - lol.
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Axitech
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with SS from Swagelok and Swagelok fittings on my fuel lines, It's over-done because the fittings and line are rated to 6000psi, but damn does it look good. Fitting will not leak at common fuel pressures of <20 psi or even FI pressures of < 150psi. I have never seen any of it crack due to stress/vibration, but in use we keep unsupported sections to less than 18". Supports are hard plastic but they do have a damping effect on the oscillations in the line.
Trying to find a pic.
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Parrish used stainless steel line on everything in his Manxter. It was in Dune Buggies & Hot VWs a few years back. They did a feature on it.
Bruce and his wife where there at Big Bear this year. It kind of a dark blue with tan interior and tan roof. In the Hot VW article parking lot picture, it is next to my orange Dual Sport.
It a beautiful build.

What did Tom use on Kathleen's Manxter when they went to Subaru?
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andygere
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used stainless steel brake lines on my boat trailers for years, without any problems. I would not be worried about flare failures on stainless fuel line if they are properly made.
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Tom_Kathleen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joseph - we used -6 SS braided hose for the feed and high pressure rubber for the return, all run under the fenders. Tom
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tom.
With this crap gas we have here, it deteriorates the rubber hose. I been keeping an eye on the -6 SS braided line on mine now for a while. It only about 6ft total. I going to change it out to the Teflon braided this winter.
From what I have heard the SS braided (rubber type liner) goes bad quicker if let the lines dry out. Such as being without fuel in them.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5/16ths line will flow a LOT of fuel....

You don't have to use those fancy expensive fittings. FI hose over metal line with a FI clamp works great.
It's not fancy chrome or stainless.......but as they say, "Chrome don't get you home"..... Wink

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I have 2 seasons and almost 8000 miles on my FI and the fuel line is not even something I worry about .......ever.
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Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


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http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clonebug,
Have you ever read about Vincent & France and there buggy drives through 49 states and all of Canada?
The only state they have not visited yet is Hawaii. That is in the works.
8,000 miles is nothing compared to what mileage they go on some of their trips.

I have put more than 7,000 miles on mine in one month in October 2013. And a group came from the east coast to Big Bear California in July and back home driving buggies. I have well over 30,000 miles, closer to 40,000 on mine since putting it together in 09. I just did over a 1,000 mile round trip to play in the desert of Southern California a few weeks ago with it.
When you are going great distances you want something that will never cause a problem or leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.
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Joseph
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When you are going great distances you want something that will never cause a problem or leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.


Or when it does, it is a easy to access and easy to fix the problem with parts that can be gotten almost anywhere.

In the middle of no where Texas, Vincent finds a bearing shop and buys new front wheel bearings.

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clonebug
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Clonebug,
Have you ever read about Vincent & France and there buggy drives through 49 states and all of Canada?
The only state they have not visited yet is Hawaii. That is in the works.
8,000 miles is nothing compared to what mileage they go on some of their trips.

I have put more than 7,000 miles on mine in one month in October 2013. And a group came from the east coast to Big Bear California in July and back home driving buggies. I have well over 30,000 miles, closer to 40,000 on mine since putting it together in 09. I just did over a 1,000 mile round trip to play in the desert of Southern California a few weeks ago with it.
When you are going great distances you want something that will never cause a problem or leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere.


I know exactly how far Vincent drives since I read all his Samba posts and most others too.
Even if you use a threaded fitting you still need to slip a hose on to the fitting unless you use hydraulic style. Just because it is a pretty blue or red doesn't mean it is trouble free.
All I would have to do is carry about 18 inches of hose and four clamps and all my soft fuel line could be replaced. The rest is steel.
There is no way mine will leak whether it is 1000 miles or 30,000 miles. The hose would go bad before it would leak at the clamp. To fix that I just put a new piece of hose on before a trip just to remove the chance something could happen.
The fuel pump is a Bosch from a 94 turbo Volvo and the filter is a VW Golf piece. The injectors are also from the Volvo. All should be available from any parts store. My coil is a Ford part and my coil wires from a 97 Ford F-150. Should be fairly easy to get on the road.
I build my stuff to be trouble free......It just doesn't look as fancy as some others....not that there is anything wrong with having that...... Wink If I had beautiful paint and chrome I would never want to take it anywhere for fear of it getting scratched or damaged.
I have turbo and FI......I wouldn't be afraid to take my buggy anywhere after an oil change. Since I pull the body off every winter for some sort of upgrade it is checked for any problems or issues before it goes back together. It's as dependable or more than my Ford Taurus or GMC Pickup. It just doesn't have a top so long distance driving is weather related.
I hope to do a Big Bear run in the next couple years....I think i have my Wife talked into it....... Wink Cool
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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FarmerJohn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add some controversy to the subject , I've got copper fuel lines on mine . While in the tunnel might be nice to try and fit some insulated pipe for heat supply & return
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to take the buggy on trip instead of Big Bear there is always the Manx to the Falls in June 2015 at Niagara Falls. You could use it as an excuse for a second Honeymoon with your wife.

As you said copper can create a controversy. It will work if supported correctly. If it is not secured and vibrates it work hardens and will crack eventually. I used in in the past with success, but running inside the tunnel would be work to secure it.
Is that Chinese copper and insulation sleeve?
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sbussard
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks like a perfect sand scoop! I bet you could get quite a bit this way! You could fill the whole tunnel!

Can't wait to see your build coming together. Do you have a color picked out yet?

And will France be allowed to drive this one??

Scott

1madmanx wrote:
vincent9993 wrote:

Found out that the Super conversion is going to leave me with an airscoop! Maybe I can re-route this as A/C or engine cooling?! lol
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This is the perfect "sandscoop" for it's first MOTB beach trip. Scott Bussard's sand accumulation this past year will be child's play for this one. Twisted Evil
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
If you want to take the buggy on trip instead of Big Bear there is always the Manx to the Falls in June 2015 at Niagara Falls. You could use it as an excuse for a second Honeymoon with your wife.


Since I work in the Asphalt Industry I would have a tough enough time to get off work in July for a 10 day trip to California let alone time for a cross country trip.
They would be more than happy to give me three weeks off in January...... Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash


http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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FarmerJohn
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:


As you said copper can create a controversy. It will work if supported correctly. If it is not secured and vibrates it work hardens and will crack eventually. I used in in the past with success, but running inside the tunnel would be work to secure it.
Is that Chinese copper and insulation sleeve?

Yes that is Chinese , I pulled the picture from the internet for illustration purposes
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