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force3g Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2009 Posts: 195 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Great thread. I used Dynamat in my 1970 Westy. I covered every square inch possible, nothing in the engine bay. The doors close solid, no tinny sound. I was not concerned about the added weight of the product. I am thrilled with the results and highly recommend it. There are a lot of good products out there. _________________ Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber bullet.
1970 Westy
2010 Jetta |
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khalimadeath Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 768 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
http://www.lobucrod.com/
"3/16" closed-cell polyethylene foam core with 99% pure polished aluminum facings on both sides"
I've heard good things, but haven't tried it myself. That said, I am going to try them when I get to my interior overhaul. Some of their sample pics even show a few baywindows all done up with it. Hopefully im as happy as the muscle car guys have been with it... |
Yea it was one of the first insulation's other than the name brand that I found. I found that its not great for places under pressure though. It pops like bubble wrap. I would avoid putting it on the floor.
Also MOD's think we could ad this to the tech thread? I included weight links and price to weed out as many questions and limit the amount of searching one would have to do. I think it will be helpful to a newbie in the future. |
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matt94gt Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014 Posts: 245 Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
anything that encourages moisture to wick between it and the body at the edges* is a problem. Something like jute provides sound deadening, thermal protection and it breathes.
It is inexpensive too.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action
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Im looking at insulating and sealing up my 72. I like the idea of putting something like this this in the panels such as you did, did you spray an adhesive and stick it down or is it just wedged in there? This looks like a good product to help with insulation (as I will be camping in the bus).
What about the vapour barrier, I dont see any posts on here regarding that. I want to make sure I dont trap moisture in the panels.
This product seems interesting, has anyone tried it here yet?
http://www.lobucrod.com/
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A major concern when restoring a vehicle is finding an insulation/sound deadening product that won't cause long term damage to the body of the vehicle. When using foam, cotton or jute backed products, unwanted moisture can easily be the cause of early deterioration in the floor of the vehicle. This insulation prevents condensation and will not absorb moisture. Therefore, it will not mold nor mildew like cotton, foam and jute backed products do. It stops up to 97% of radiant heat transfer, which makes it ideal not only for firewalls, but also for lining engine covers in boats and motor homes. In the winter months, automotive insulation will keep all your valuable heat in your car or RV, where you need it most. It is also an excellent sound deadener, so it will keep out unwanted engine and road noise. This insulation is extremely lightweight (40 sq. ft. weighs less than 2 pounds), totally non-toxic and cuts with scissors or a sharp knife. |
What I am thinking
http://store.secondskinaudio.com/spectrum-1-gallon/ - For the floor boards
http://www.lobucrod.com/ - For the side panels
http://www.b-quiet.com/ultimate.html - For the floor boards and other areas, I will just be adding squares and not covering the entire area _________________ 72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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Zelten Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2008 Posts: 1335 Location: Issaquah
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have any experience with GTMAT? They have a 50SQFT kit 110 Mil thick for $145. That doesn't sound too bad for the thickness. But I have no experience with any sound deadening so I'm not sure if it's good or not. I figure the thicker the better.
http://gtsoundcontrol.com/shop/50-SQ-FT-GTMAT-110MIL-Car-Audio-Sound-Deadener.html _________________ 1978 Delux Campmobile
03 Jetta TDI
15 Q7 TDI |
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BusPriest Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2014 Posts: 420 Location: Denver, Co
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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If your looking for jute padding. (Someone was...) You can get it here for $3.50 and $5.50 a sq yd. One is thicker than the other. 3/8th's and 5/8th's. It's cheap!
http://www.albrightssupply.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=jute+pad&Submit=Search
But I'm leaning between a combo of Quick Roof, EZ Cool and carpet foam. This is in a type 1. I was considering jute in place of the EZ Cool though. Still haven't made up my mind. |
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Ernie Punkin Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2014 Posts: 84 Location: Hawaii/B.C. Canada/Seattle
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi Guys,
What about a 2 or 3 combo of these items?
http://www.lobucrod.com/
with Dynamat Xtreme
and
Ensolite?
I'm a newbie with a 77 Westy being updated for serious long camping expeditions across Canada and in PNW. I'm must really curious about this topic, but reading the posts has my head spinning.
There certainly aren't too many clear cut "formulas" or pre-determined recommendations to piggy back on it seems, or maybe I just have a lot to learn still.
I'm going to have a glossy black marine paint on pop top - please don't cringe. So any ideas anyone can share for minimizing heat transfer through the pop top would be welcome. This is in addition to heat insulation and at least some sound insulation (engine and road noise) in the main "cabin" and front cab areas.
Has anyone ever tried to put a fabric like TMI's mohair on top of any heat reflective material added to the underside of the pop top? I suppose the heat reflective material would have to be thin to avoid any closing/clamping down issues, especially if trying to add a fabric topping. The fabric idea is to hide the scary fuzzy stuff.
The shop working on my Ernie has tons of experience in van/bus projects. For now I'm really just curious to hear what the world of VW wizards has to say for this scenario - pretty extensive use the cool damp PNW and more time in that part of the world with just 2 1/2 months of summer, a.k.a. "Canada".
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Help pretty please?
Comments from another post:
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I liked working with the Dynamat. I found it easy to cut and install. The sticky layer doesn't appear as tacky as the Raam Mat, which makes it easy to reposition. Once it sets though, it will definately stay stuck. It also has a little stretch to it, which is nice to get into all the crevisis.
Pros:
- Readily available (Circuit City, eBay, etc)
- Thicker foil topper
- Thicker Butyl layer
- Easier to install because Butyl layer isn't as sticky initially
Cons:
- Sharp foil topper (I have cuts all over my hands and legs)
- Expensive
Raam Mat:
I found this mat a little more difficult to work with. The Butyl layer is quite gooey. It makes for a messy install. It is also VERY sticky - which means it is hard to position into small areas (like the inside of the doors).
Pros:
- Cheaper than Dynamat (it comes in a large roll)
- I like the additional Ensolite material - easy to install
Cons:
- Very sticky and hard to reposition
- Has more of a smell than Dynamat
- Not as thick as Dynamat
Overall I'm happy with my install. Installing the sound deadening really helps reduce the ambient sounds in the cabin and really seems to kick the stereo's sound up a few notches.
I think the Dynamat is a good product. I think the addition Ensolite material is what helps Raam Mat with overall sound deadening.
If I had to do the whole thing over again I would have purchased Dynamat as the Butyl layer and then purchased Ensolite as a topper. |
_________________ 1977 Westfalia "Happy"
Bye Bye 1979 Westfalia ERNIE the REI Bus
-----
Ion Pod Trailer |
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mojogoat Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2013 Posts: 440 Location: Norcal
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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I'm currently doing a promaster van, I'm using ezcool, closed cell foam, MLV, hard foam insulation and 3m thinsulate. Thinsulate is probably the best product you can use next to aerogel as it has the highest r factor and does sound proofing to boot. The foil covered butyl rubber stuff only needs to cover 25% of the panels, anymore helps but not that much. MLV is the main product to use for sound reduction but you have to decouple both sides of the MLV with some foam in order for it to work. So I'm ending up with butyl rubber,thin closed cell foam,MLV,thin closed cell foam, hardfoam, then thinsulate on both sides of the exposed panel. roof I'm using ezcool then thinsualte to keep it thin for max headroom. If money were no object I would use aerogel and thinsulate. _________________ 77 Riviera
78 CEII Westfalia |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a handy chart I found about stick on sound deadeners:
And a recent long thread I contributed to. That went from "let's use the cheap stuff" to "there's a sale on second skin this friday at 30% off. and it's WAAAAYYY better than anything else I've looked at for the price.".
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7437778#7437778
I think bus' (I probably spelled that wrong.) have alot more options than bugs because of the vast square gaps and spaces to be covered. But if your just looking for a stick on sound deadener and some sort of heat shield. I don't think you can go wrong with either Raamat or Damplifier Pro (on sale black friday 30% off) coupled with EZ Cool. And then whatever carpet and padding you choose to finish the job with.
Second Skin (Damplifier Pro) also has some "B" quality amounts of sound deadener that is cheaper. Thickness is random. As is size of sheets. But it's discounted quite a bit. And with that 30% off sale on friday. I jump on it.
Here's the Second Skin sale:
http://marketing.secondskinaudio.com/admin/temp/newsletters/26/black%20friday%20email%20ad.jpg |
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alikatcraig Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2007 Posts: 554 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Also check out the Noxudol site for their 3100 sound deadening product.
It sprays on as a thin coat, but has great sound reduction properties. Priced at $125/gal, but relatively light weight compared to Dynamat etc and no problems with glue coming unstuck on roof panels etc. Another benefit is it is waterbased. They seem to aim for large scale users (NYPD cars I believe is one). They also have a sprayable thermal barrier coat, but the minimum seems to be 5 gal. Interesting video demonstration of sound deadening on a box with an alarm bell inside. It also has rust prevention properties, so I may spray under the bus with it on the belly pans. Their cavity/black underbody wax products are the same as those used by VW in Europe. My bus cavities are swimming in wax! _________________ 1967 Ghia
1971 Deluxe Microbus
1974 Convertible Bug
1973 Standard Bug
1998 Mexican Bug |
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ultralite Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 570 Location: GA
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ernie Punkin wrote: |
I'm must really curious about this topic, but reading the posts has my head spinning. |
Amen to that. I'm in the Southeast and our weather is fairly mild. I don't need the insulation temperature control my northern brethren may need for winter camping.
I'd like my long distance trips to be a little more quiet. I have this crazy idea of talking to the person in the passenger seat, not shouting.
I currently have my interior out for new carpet and upholstery. It would be an ideal time to put something down. But good grief the different opinions/methods on this topic. _________________ Godspeed
'76 Beetle (sold)
'69 Beetle (sold)
'72 BMW 2002 (RIP)
'69 Westy
'02 BMW wagon AWD w/stick shift(sold)
'67 Beetle (sold) |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'd just pick the best you can afford on that chart. And go with what you can afford. I got some second skin on xmas sale. Otherwise I would have gone with Raamat. It seems to be the best midline product out there. And fairly inexpensive. Then some EZ Cool over that to help with heat and additional sound control. Maybe just over your engine bay and/or roof. |
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BUSBOSS Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 2161 Location: Northern California
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Pinetops Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2007 Posts: 2987
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Comparison between driver's door which has pieces of Reckhorn ABX (dynamat type material) in it vs the passenger side which doesn't.
Link
_________________ "A rolling bus gathers no rust." |
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Pinetops Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2007 Posts: 2987
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: The great insulation/ sound deadening thread... |
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Reckhorn ABX
Reflectix velcro'd on
Home Depot Acoustical barrier (mass loaded vinyl)
_________________ "A rolling bus gathers no rust." |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5680 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Pinetops Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2007 Posts: 2987
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Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:49 am Post subject: Re: The great insulation/ sound deadening thread... |
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Yep, there is a significant difference in engine noise. I would do it again in a heartbeat. _________________ "A rolling bus gathers no rust." |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: Floor covering questions for my 68 bay Westy. |
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safedude wrote: |
Hello, I am hoping someone can steer me to some threads or give advice on how to proceed. I am replacing the floor covering. The Z bed and floor is out. I was thinking about putting some stick on pipe wrap(the stuff at Home Depot) directly on the floor before putting the new plywood in. There is no rust or any problems with the floor panel. I'm hoping to achieve some sound deadening and thermal insulating. Any advice is much appreciated. |
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Pinetops Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2007 Posts: 2987
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Floor covering questions for my 68 bay Westy. |
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Tcash wrote: |
safedude wrote: |
Hello, I am hoping someone can steer me to some threads or give advice on how to proceed. I am replacing the floor covering. The Z bed and floor is out. I was thinking about putting some stick on pipe wrap(the stuff at Home Depot) directly on the floor before putting the new plywood in. There is no rust or any problems with the floor panel. I'm hoping to achieve some sound deadening and thermal insulating. Any advice is much appreciated. |
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Just consider if you use it on the floor and moisture gets under it, it will cause rust. The wood and floor covering and maybe a piece of carpet should cut down on a lot of noise coming through the cargo floor.
After doing a lot of research I would not use asphalt based materials. The kind home depot sells is asphalt as is the cheapest car specific types like low end Fatmat (fat mat also make higher quality sound deadending).
Butyl based is what you want. I shopped around a lot and the Reckhorn ABX is the best butyl type I found for the money. _________________ "A rolling bus gathers no rust." |
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khalimadeath Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2014 Posts: 768 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: The great insulation/ sound deadening thread... |
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Ordered some reckhorn and will be installing soon, I am still trying to decide what to install on the celling and side walls. I am leaning towards ezcool. |
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