Are deep sumps really needed

[WD-40]

[modok]

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bugpack-Super-Oil-Suction-Kit-p/3058.htm

[sambabus]

[jsturtlebuggy]

To answer the question about the tubes through a sump. I seen a modified Berg sump done with aluminum tubes by Ray Vallero in Auburn, Ca. It was on a friends car and he said it worked well.

This is one thing that is done on a off road racing engine for controlling oil slosh.

I have also use the BugPack Oil Suction Kit that Glenn mentions with a link to John's site showing it with good success in off road racing engines and my own engines. When you have clearance issues it works. Does not matter if it aluminum, it works and stays in place.

Dry Sump is really the best solution except for having to use a small crank pulley.
I really wish someone would start remaking the Cummins/Isky drysump pump. It was an offset pump that lowered the outside gears to clear a larger crank pulley. I know they work, I knew people that used them with great success. I have not seen one in use in many years. Petersens Publications did articles on them in the first VW book they produce and also the Off Road Fun Cars book.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[[email protected]]

Some guys also have a lot of success with something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Mini-Sump-Kit-Type-1-2-and-3-Engines-3051-10-p/3051-10.htm
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[Brian]

so 2110 that never goes over 5000k offroad, better without?

2180 that wont go over 5000k offroad, not needed?
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'69 Bug
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[modok]

I just like steel because:
you can solder or braze on the pickup tube

Steel drainplate less likely to bust if hit, and less likely to strip the drain plug.

And prior bad experiences trying to weld aluminum oil pans back together

[advinnie]

Hi all thanks for all the replys. I have decided to go ahead and use my 1.5L sump but I do have a question. Now once the engine has been put together and the sump fitted will it be ok (will the external sump take the weight) to stand the engine on the sump and to jack the engine up into position by placing the jack under the sump? I don't what to go through all the hassle of fitting the external sump then while jacking the engine up into position it cracks cause it can't take the weight of the engine. Do this makes sense ?

[madmike]

kind of hard to put a jack under it if the car is lowered I've done it on my own cars, but jack it up on the lower shock mount is better
Bergs have internal bracing on the 4qt's not sure on 1 1/2's?
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[advinnie]

Ok but what I'm getting at here is when installing the engine. Is it ok to lift the engine with a jack with the jack head on the sump plate witch is on the external sump. Will the sump take it if not how are after people installing there engine with the sump installed on them?

[madmike]

Yea I do it all the time,if it don't hold for that it ain't worth a fuck
don't see how else to pull a motor
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[advinnie]

Glad you said that cause that's hiw I was planning on lifting the engine back into the car it's just that someone had told me that the sump wouldn't take the weight of the engine and would collapse?

[hooker]

In a lot of cases when a person installs a deep sump they will use the original stock mounting studs and the deep sump would have to be the same thickness where the studs come through as stock. If you set the engine on the new deep sump you have the possibility of cracking around the mounting holes especially if you tip the engine off balance due to the wider sump creating more leverage if the weight of the engine is not perfectly centered. Instant oil leaks. This can happen even with the thicker/longer stud mounting type deep sump by breaking the seal between the engine and the added on sump. This creates a "Weeping" type leak that is hard to find.
_________________
2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon





I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted.

[lil-jinx]

For peace of mine I would not jack the engine on the sump.I would install the sump after the engine was installed.But I'v never had a sump so take it for what it's worth.

[Northof49]

That mini sump looks cool, but would be a bitch to balance a motor on.

Any suggestions as to who has the best mounting system for a deep sump? Do you ever modify what it comes with to something better? What to look for in mounting?
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner

[Greezy Joe]

I install my motors with deep sump on and jack it up by the sump plate. No issues at all. Heck if a sump is as flimsy to break during an install it ain't worth putting on the motor. But it does make it a little harder to balance. A motorcycle jack is ideal.
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Current:74 Ghia Coupe w/ 2276
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