Anyone open their starter and lubricate bits?

[IdahoDoug]

Anyone open up a starter and lube bits? Clean solenoid, etc?

On my Cruisers, the starters are designed to be serviced. The solenoid contacts are huge copper half moons held with a single screw. When they slow a bit, its time to order a new set of $11 contacts.

My Vanagon automatic starter has always been slow to engage. By that, I mean turn the key and without moving the key, it will take up to a half second to hear the starter engage and then it turns as normal and starts well. However, now that it's cold, I can hear a faint "I need lubricant" squeal as the starter spins down after the engine's running. So I was thinking about pulling the starter and cleaning and lubing it, more as an exercise into learning how they are built and how they will respond to a bit of love halfway to being worn out.

Has anyone else done this? What did you find?

I have a strong battery, good clean grounds, Jay's hot start wiring harness on the starter, and a new ignition switch in the steering column. So at this point I think I'm pretty safe that it's the starter solenoid accounting for the delay.

Thanks!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Gruppe B]

I remember a teardown and rebuild post in the baywindow forum which is pretty much the same starter.

I'll try and find

[MacLeod Willy]

Really, its like anything else that moves, it needs to be clean and lubricated. It can be taken apart far enough that you can remove the armature and clean the copper commutator. Removing the through bolts in the solenoid is the tough part. You may have to persuade the aluminum housing with a hammer while you put tension on the screws with the driver.
Inspect the brushes, should have about 3/16" above the brackets where the springs make contact. Watch which way the rubber seal falls out when you remove the case over the armature. You will need to remove the pivot bolt on the Y fork to allow the drive to clear the housing. Do not wash the starter drive. Small drips of fine oil worked into it should be enough. I use synthetic grease on the bushings - small amounts.
To insert the armature through the brush holder you will need 14 fingers to pull the brushes back and get them out of the way. If you carefully slide them back and pry the spring to the side they will hold until the armature is past them. Now you push them in and the spring jumps back onto the notch in the brush.
You will learn new words doing this for the first time, but its fun right?
I can see all this happening in my head, but to put it in writing another story

[IdahoDoug]

Heh, that's a good overview.... I like the 14 fingers.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[dobryan]

Never did it on my Vanagon but I did the starter on my old 911. I just sat on the living room floor and started taking it apart, cleaned and lubed it, and put it back together. It wasn't working well so I figured I had nothing to lose. It has worked well for the last ten years since. Fortunately my wife did not come in when I had it apart on the carpet (yes, I used newspaper).
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

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[IdahoDoug]

Heh - sounds like the kind of thing I do.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[atomatom]

i think the vanagon starter is underpowered... or perhaps, just powered enough. mine grumbles but starts, but not in a fast sort of manner, more like a unhuhuhuhuhuhuh oh, okaaaaaaaaay...... brrmmmmmmm

i think i'll get one of these when it becomes less cooperative http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_2170_244/starter_adapter.html
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[Vanagon Nut]

I recently took apart a vanagon starter.
Re: the long screws. I used my hammer driven impact wrench.
Worked great.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, I eyed that starter as well. Looks like a permanent solution.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[?Waldo?]

Take care if lubing the solenoid. You should use light oil only. Graphite would probably be better. Thicker lubes will cause it to stick in cold weather.

[atomatom]

[rubbachicken]

i only ever clean them out with brake cleaner, lube the lever that the solenoid pushed on, and leave it at that, clutch dust ingress into grease would stop the starter in no time
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lucy our westy

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[Vanagon Nut]

[IdahoDoug]

Great stuff. So, how far did you take things apart? I'm hoping to figure out which bearing is the one that groans when the starter winds down and lube that, then some moly on the part in the picture as well. The Cruiser starters are literally designed so you can open up the solenoid contacts to replace, and pull the solenoid plunger out to relube. This doesn't look to be the case. Other brave souls?
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[atomatom]

[IdahoDoug]

Gruppe B - I tried to find the post you remembered with no luck. But now I've been looking at Bay stuff for an hour and my eyes hurt! Glad I have a Vanagon based on the stuff those guy are dealing with.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Tbob]

Ok, I am trying to remember, but the automatic starters are self supporting while the manual starters use a starter bushing in the bell housing. It is no big deal except you can lube and check the nose bushing in the auto starter easier. They do not come apart as far as the land cruiser one does, as I cannot remember seeing the contacts, but you can take everything apart and regrease the bearings, have the armature contacts turned, and check the brushes and wiring. As one of the posters said, lightly oil the solenoid piston instead of grease because the grease will cause it to stick when it's cold outside (of course, it never gets cold in Idaho). The hammer driven impact screwdriver is a mandatory tool to get the solenoid off the starter housing, as it is held on with 3 tight phillips screws. I use Valvoline Dura blend grease on the bushings, and the poster speaking about the 14 fingers has it right, although I have been able to accomplish the reassembly with only 10 fingers and a small screwdriver.
My local auto electric shop turned the armature and replaced the brushes.
When done, the starters do work better.
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks for the input. The Bentley does its usual poor job showing the starter components, and also somewhat casually mentions lubing with moly grease in a couple spots. I agree with the light oil, however.

The groaning I hear when the starter winds down will most likely be the bearing as you mention so it's great to hear I may be able to access them and give them a shot of light oil. I recognize the sound from 35 years ago when I had a Triumph Spitfire whose starter would periodically make the exact same sound on disengagement and I'd have to give it a squirt. The starter was about 6" from my right heel so it was easy to get the message even at 16...

The other thing - the slight delay to engage - may be harder to deal with. It's the solenoid not moving, and I'm not sure there is a place to lube that shaft so its instantly responding. Mebbe when I get the thing on the bench I will discover a dirty connection or something though I recently disturbed them to install the hot start relay kit. Will check grounds as well though I did then. Hmm

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Wildthings]

[morymob]

I've found slo, sticking ones r sol plunger has old gummy stuff..On 1 a 84 auto I had to coast to back of pkng lot, remove wheel, u can reach in to remove,(after batt cable &top nut removed) cleaned, oiled & back running in less 1-1/2 hr..