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bill iler
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Joined: September 09, 2004
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Location: atlantic highlands, NJ 07716
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 Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:26 pm Post subject: 1970 Engine Bay restoring to original- a few questions |
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my 78K mile Ghia has had some changes in the engine bay and I want to restore it back to what it was- for good or bad, such as original carb, coil, emissions items. it is a 1600 single port Code B engine (don't have engine number handy tonight)
A few questions on 1970 engine items codes, colors, etc:
1- Coil- Black, Bosch- what is the correct 1970 part number, I have seen a few different ones on these
2-Carb- a Solex PICT 30-3?
3-Correct color for engine tin? Gloss blac or matte black?
'4- What decals or stickers should be on doghouse? I don't have any but see ghosts of old glue square- about 2 x 2- to the far pass side of the doghouse, and in some owner manual photos, a larger sticker on the upper driver side- what should be there?
5- Dog house- white numbers on it- what are they indicating (Mine got painted over in a porr attempt to clean up engine bay....I can just barely make out some numbers under the matter black spray..arrgghh)
6-Any one have a good close up of an OG bay, so I can see exactly how the emissions lines, decel throtle control lines, etc, should be run? Cant find one in the gallery or in the brochures I have for the car.
Thanks! |
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sputnick60
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mcdonaldneal
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Joined: June 13, 2013
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Location: Gullane, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Naturally there are a few to be found in the gallery, but I'll post mine up, with comments about what I know/ suspect not to be stock. The first is an oldish pic, but the car is a very original late '69 (1970 model year) 1600 single port ex California...
Solex H30/31 carb may be a replacement, but I think is stock.
Generator wires should be red (or red/black) and green.
Black demister relay attached to the bottom coil bolt is a replacement (now have a stock, silver one).
Coil, not sure what the stock coil is supposed to be.
Stickers: I have a very faded foil sticker under the coil with the valve adjustment specs and a large red 0deg logo in its top left.
Fuel filter relocated, before anyone points it out 😘
Engine cooling flaps had been removed, but they would have had a Bowden cable running from the fan shroud to the left side of the air cleaner horn (as well as the weighted flap on the right).
Deck lid release has been re routed to exit under the bumper.
(Many of the above have been, or will be sorted, as I am also trying to get the engine compartment as close to stock as possible, so I will bookmark this thread, thanks!)
I'll add some more pics below...
Decklid.
Earth strap and Save my Bug dipstick (non stock!)
Engine out, for info, NOS exhaust, and heat risers and manifold have been repainted.
Bare of tin, for info.
Looking forward to seeing others' pics for reference.
_________________
1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
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bill iler
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Joined: September 09, 2004
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Location: atlantic highlands, NJ 07716
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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(1) COIL a Black coil with yellow Bosch sticker is correct, part number changes depending on year of manufacture. There is a Ghia brochure for 70 (is it really a sports car) showing a blue Bosch sticker on a black coil, cannot verify if this is a 70 production photo or some re-used pic...
(2) DISTRIBUTOR has an orange/brownish color rotor cap.
(3) According to an 8/69 VW "Without Guesswork" technical data manual, Engine number determines carb, and Type 1, manual trans, from engine #B6000001 and up, has a Solex 30 PICT 3 with modification No. VW226- (main jet is 122.5 versus 112.5).
(4) SHROUD- metal foil timing sticker is on the lower left side sort of behind the coil. The valve adjustment sticker is on the right side upper just below the white lettering. There is an emission sticker on certain years on the fact near the coil- others may have had in on the top of the shrouf- not sure if 70 has one, cannot confirm.
Last edited by bill iler on Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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irvanm
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: |
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here's my 70, I'm pretty sure you can use my engine compartment as a bad example.
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c21darrel
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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as far as the white markings on the shroud. 14 M157 1.6 ?
14, ghia
M157,it means your engine was SMOG ready.
Engine H 0,874,200 - H 1,003,255 44bhp(DIN)1500(not to US)
Engine H 5,000,001 - H 5,414,585 44bhp(DIN)1500(US - M157 smog
1.6, cc?
I've seen the M157 on old 36 horse motors.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=927576
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mcdonaldneal
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mcdonaldneal
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mcdonaldneal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:03 am Post subject: |
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This very helpful summary from another thread.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212202&highlight=stock+coil+black
| Rome wrote: |
giamann, can you please try to provide a photo of your current engine, so we can point out items that may not look factory original? Many items have been replaced over the years on most engines which have slight variations from factory-new, such as:
-fuel hoses (use German braided hose, not rubber)
-coil (blue coil is not original) and its label
-coil bracket (type that comes with blue coils now is not correct; both mounting holes are oval-shaped and not a slot to the edge)
-paint for intake manifold has to be high heat resistant (1300 degrees +), in color "medium gray"
-get correct crankshaft pulley for 12V engine
-spark plug wires and the ends that go into the distributor cap
-color of distributor cap
-distributor itself
-presence of the silver "valve clearance" label on the fan shroud
-having the correct hardware on the generator backing plate, thermostat flap fasteners, coil (either M6 slotted screws or M6 bolts), with the correct finish (NOT chromed, but a dull silvery gray plating) with correct flat washers under the fastener head
-M8 nuts for generator stand, etc do not have locking inserts, but use wavy washers
-correct VW "thin" hose clamps for the fresh air hoses leading from the fan shroud to the rear breastplate
-black-colored paper fresh air hoses
-correct-style rubber donuts which seal off those fresh air hoses at the rear breastplate
-correct spark plug holders which fit into the fan shroud
-correct fuel feed line and hose going to the fuel pump
-correct style fuel pump (many aftermarket ones 'work" but are not original-correct)
-correct fuse holder and bracket at coil for your reverse light circuit
-correct color wires for all electrical components, with soldered and pinched spade connectors.
etc., etc., etc
Be careful of reference photos from the Bentley repair manual- even though those engines are factory stock, many parts are often painted a much lighter color to make it easier to visualize in the manual, since the photos are reproduced in black+white.
Black paint? Try a spray can of gloss black Rust-O-Leum on a spare piece. A friend in VT who rebuilt many VW engines years ago to stock spec's told me that he uses gloss black Rust-O-Leum in his spray gun to achieve a smooth, even finish, but obviously any painting requires skill. Just be aware that Rust-O-Leum, or any other commonly available spray can paint, dissolves quickly if you get gasoline on it and you try to wipe it off. Best to let it air dry before touching.
Picky, picky? Well, I applaud your efforts and interest to keep your engine factory stock. I often help judging stock ACVWs at the two big meets in CT, and RARELY see an engine that is fully representative of factory correct. At least one of the items above are incorrect. |
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
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mcdonaldneal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| c21darrel wrote: |
as far as the white markings on the shroud. 14 M157 1.6 ?
14, ghia
M157,it means your engine was SMOG ready.
Engine H 0,874,200 - H 1,003,255 44bhp(DIN)1500(not to US)
Engine H 5,000,001 - H 5,414,585 44bhp(DIN)1500(US - M157 smog
1.6, cc?
I've seen the M157 on old 36 horse motors.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=927576 |
A clearer pic here of the lettering...
So, 14 (Ghia), M157 smog ready, 1.6 obvious, M26 charcoal canister for exhaust gases.
I just have one foil sticker, below the coil. Very faded. It did have a big red 0deg logo on it, so is likely the timing sticker. I'll try to get a photo.
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mcdonaldneal
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mcdonaldneal
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bill iler
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Location: atlantic highlands, NJ 07716
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject: Smog versions |
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Very helpful. I have the M157 lettering but dont have the M26 lettering, nor do I have any vent tube on the right side of the shroud nor any strap/screw/mounting point on the pan, for the canister. So I think I am a non-CA, precanister car. which would explain why your earlier CA-delivery car has the canister and mine does not. It will be a few months before my certificate gets here from VW....
| mcdonaldneal wrote: |
| c21darrel wrote: |
as far as the white markings on the shroud. 14 M157 1.6 ?
14, ghia
M157,it means your engine was SMOG ready.
Engine H 0,874,200 - H 1,003,255 44bhp(DIN)1500(not to US)
Engine H 5,000,001 - H 5,414,585 44bhp(DIN)1500(US - M157 smog
1.6, cc?
I've seen the M157 on old 36 horse motors.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=927576 |
A clearer pic here of the lettering...
So, 14 (Ghia), M157 smog ready, 1.6 obvious, M26 charcoal canister for exhaust gases.
I just have one foil sticker, below the coil. Very faded. It did have a big red 0deg logo on it, so is likely the timing sticker. I'll try to get a photo. |
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akear
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| So in 1970 was the activated carbon vapor recovery system only for CA cars? Did all 1970 KGs have the metal vapor line from trunk to engine compartment but it was only hooked up for CA cars? |
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bill iler
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Location: atlantic highlands, NJ 07716
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Akear,
I am guessing that the front canister, or a front line to rear cansiter, is found on non-CA Ghias. I can vouch for this on at least early 70 build dates..... Mine is a 2/70 build date and was likely not a CA delivery (waiting for birth certificate so I cannot tell for sure).
There is also no evidence in my Ghia of any canister being placed in any way in the rear compartment for recirculation of just the rear area fumes, either.
I've posted a few close up photos under 70 Ghia Convertible gallery showing those areas- all the original sound proofing panels are present and un-molested, and they don't have any holes or tubes or holes for tubes, coming through. The shroud's right hand side also has no vent port for emissions on my car, unlike those that have the rear canister setup. |
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mcdonaldneal
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:56 am Post subject: |
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This thread seems as good a place as any to gather together photos of original, or nearly original looking engine bays from 1970/ 71 Ghias. The selfish reason for this is that I am trying to get mine back as original as possible, and I wanted photos in on place 
So, to add to what's on the thread so far, here are some from a low mileage 1971, up for sale on Bring a Trailer. Poached from the listing.
Specific original details are; the black coil, the dark brown distributor cap, the generator wiring attachments, the mounting of the demister and backup light fuses and the copper braided earth (ground) strap.
Couple of close-ups...
Other comments, and pics of stock/ original/ OG engine bays/ compartments would be great to see!
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1978 marino yellow Bay Dormobile camper
1969 signal orange Karmann Ghia convertible
1976 martini olive Bay Dormobile camper
Stop dead photo links! Post photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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mcdonaldneal
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mcdonaldneal
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mcdonaldneal
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Rome
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: |
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artistic license, indeed. In the brochure photo, note the mismatch: Those seats would be a '69 at the earliest with the separate headrests, yet the rear suspension is swing-axle. That would not be a viable combination for the US market, where every '69 received IRS. But the English-language could be for a European country where swingaxle was still standard equipment in '69. Yet the large silver label above the coil was a US-only federal requirement for the manufacturer's emissions fulfillment certification...
Note also the randomly thrown-in rear seat. I imagine, but am not certain, that the rear seat vinyl color would've been the same as on the front seats, so that this rear seat would've had the ivory color on the visible sides.
Interesting that the ignition coil has the sticker near the base, instead of near the top (terminals). And the left heater box is either partly really oily, or the studio lighting from the left cast a shadow from the left wheel onto the HB.
Aren't we a ruthlessly picky bunch?   Look at the left photos on the OM pages 40 and 41. Note that the engine rubber seal appears to be different. The one on page 40, and all the other photos, is the early "double-flap" type (thru '66, right?), yet on page 41 it appears to be the later "S" type that started with the '67- it does not have the waviness of the seal seen in page 40. Also note the crank pulley- possibly retouched- the one on page 41 has the radial "ribs" in the center, whereby the one on page 40 seems to be smooth. |
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