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Torsion arm bushings
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MacLeod Willy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: torsion Reply with quote

Hopefully we see pictures next week Wink
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: torsion Reply with quote

MacLeod Willy wrote:
Hopefully we see pictures next week Wink
I hope, too!!
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jason
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done urethane, delrin and needle bearings. Needle bearings are best ride but can wear into the arms. They ride in the same area, needles. The delrin were a close second. I use the SACO delrin bushings. They push in to the beam, not supposed to use a hammer. The two sets I used did not need to be reamed. The problem with them is they will turn in the beam and on the arm. What I did is put the bushings in and run a drill through the grease fitting holes, taper it and install the grease fittings. The grease fittings will hold the bushing from turning. Urethane was terrible. I have also had a beam powdercoated. They don't powder the inside. I had mine chemically stripped which you shouldn't do. It will seep out, powdercoat lasted maybe 10 years and then started popping off around seams. I also made a reamer with an old trailing arm. I cut a line down the bearing area and left it sharp. Insert the arm and turn, reams the bushings. I also used the full length versions. I didn't want them to go moving around. The delrin is hard and I'm sure they will move easy, especially under load. Only problem is there are no grease galleys like the originals, have to lube a lot more. Some say you don't have to lube, we will see.

http://www.sacoperformance.com/about.php
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jason wrote:
I have done urethane, delrin and needle bearings. Needle bearings are best ride but can wear into the arms. They ride in the same area, needles. The delrin were a close second. I use the SACO delrin bushings. They push in to the beam, not supposed to use a hammer. The two sets I used did not need to be reamed. The problem with them is they will turn in the beam and on the arm. What I did is put the bushings in and run a drill through the grease fitting holes, taper it and install the grease fittings. The grease fittings will hold the bushing from turning. Urethane was terrible. I have also had a beam powdercoated. They don't powder the inside. I had mine chemically stripped which you shouldn't do. It will seep out, powdercoat lasted maybe 10 years and then started popping off around seams. I also made a reamer with an old trailing arm. I cut a line down the bearing area and left it sharp. Insert the arm and turn, reams the bushings. I also used the full length versions. I didn't want them to go moving around. The delrin is hard and I'm sure they will move easy, especially under load. Only problem is there are no grease galleys like the originals, have to lube a lot more. Some say you don't have to lube, we will see.

http://www.sacoperformance.com/about.php


Thank you! This is useful information.

The delrin bushings are shipped, I have the reaming tool coming, and I dropped off the beam at the coaters. The beam was already blasted so there is no need to acid treat it. It will be blasted again and cleaned/pressure washed, and then coated.
They know to plug all holes.
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Last edited by TheLadyBug on Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the suspension on my buggy is powdercoated. Chasing threads and removing some powdercoat that found it's way past masking took half an hour. More than happy with the whole process. I did spend a huge amount of time removing all the grease out of hte beam and washing it over and over. Has stood up better than any paint I;ve ever used on suspension parts eve nin very harsh conditions.

brad
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
All the suspension on my buggy is powdercoated. Chasing threads and removing some powdercoat that found it's way past masking took half an hour. More than happy with the whole process. I did spend a huge amount of time removing all the grease out of hte beam and washing it over and over. Has stood up better than any paint I;ve ever used on suspension parts eve nin very harsh conditions.

brad

Thanks for affirming my decision to powder coat. I'm more than happy with everything I saw today at the coaters and am more than confident it will be a job well done.
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thebucket
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Do it once and do it right. By bushings from a quality retailer like WW, and have a good shop do the work.

If you want a more up to date material, the Porsche guys use Derlin bushings.

BTW, I couldn't believe the amount of slop in my bushings.

Cheers,

Paul
Paul what is the benefit to a Derlin bushing?
Thanks,
Paul
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebucket wrote:
gimmesomeshelter wrote:
Do it once and do it right. By bushings from a quality retailer like WW, and have a good shop do the work.

If you want a more up to date material, the Porsche guys use Derlin bushings.

BTW, I couldn't believe the amount of slop in my bushings.

Cheers,

Paul
Paul what is the benefit to a Derlin bushing?
Thanks,
Paul



Delrin is a much harder and durable material than urethane. That said I have never had a problem with urethane.

brad
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
Delrin is a much harder and durable material than urethane.


Plus . . . Delrin wont squeak . . . Urethane might start squeaking.

Urethane makes for pretty good skateboard wheels because they grip!
Delrin is also used for skateboard wheels . . . guess why! So they will slide!

BTW . . . Delrin is a brand name of Polyoxymethylene. Depending on the supplier we purchase from, we occasionally use Acetal brand as well. They are interchangeable. Sorta like askin' for a Kleenex . . . people know what you are askin' for . . . ask for a Puffs, and well . . .
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1964 to 1954
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

Anyone ever use a VW274A Type 1 Reamer? I have one and have installed new Wolfsburg West bushings. Now with tool in hand I need to ream with the taper portion first. Question is how does it lock in place. It just spins on the rod. The WW bushings are about 34mm and will not allow the body of the non tapered portion of the tool to fit inside.

I figured it out. Wolfsburg West Bushings could have been made with just a little bit more I.D. It's hell trying to force the body of the reamer into their bushing as it's just too tight. The other taper piece is only for support of on the outer bushing once cut. I got through two bushing but I'm going to spend more money buying a taper cutter to get me to 36mm.
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

1964 to 1954 wrote:
Anyone ever use a VW274A Type 1 Reamer? I have one and have installed new Wolfsburg West bushings. Now with tool in hand I need to ream with the taper portion first. Question is how does it lock in place. It just spins on the rod. The WW bushings are about 34mm and will not allow the body of the non tapered portion of the tool to fit inside.

I figured it out. Wolfsburg West Bushings could have been made with just a little bit more I.D. It's hell trying to force the body of the reamer into their bushing as it's just too tight. The other taper piece is only for support of on the outer bushing once cut. I got through two bushing but I'm going to spend more money buying a taper cutter to get me to 36mm.

Trevor teamed my bushings for me with this reamer, special tool 274a.
However, I ordered Delrin bushes from NLA. I assume you're using WW micarta? Perhaps getting the Delrin would make reaming go a bit better. From what I recall, mine needed minimal removed from the ID.
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Sameleon
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

1964 to 1954 wrote:
Anyone ever use a VW274A Type 1 Reamer? I have one and have installed new Wolfsburg West bushings. Now with tool in hand I need to ream with the taper portion first. Question is how does it lock in place. It just spins on the rod. The WW bushings are about 34mm and will not allow the body of the non tapered portion of the tool to fit inside.

I figured it out. Wolfsburg West Bushings could have been made with just a little bit more I.D. It's hell trying to force the body of the reamer into their bushing as it's just too tight. The other taper piece is only for support of on the outer bushing once cut. I got through two bushing but I'm going to spend more money buying a taper cutter to get me to 36mm.


Here is some photos from my workshop. Please keep in mind that reamer is good for dimensions up to 0.5mm. In case you have 34 ID, you must remachined it to 36.5 or 36.75 first.
http://www.samsgarage.org/projects/1950-brezel-aus-schweden/toc/87-struzeni-pouzder-predni-napravy
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WayneN
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

Is there a way to tell if you have the bearings or micarta without taking apart the front end?
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TheLadyBug
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

WayneN wrote:
Is there a way to tell if you have the bearings or micarta without taking apart the front end?

Unfortunately, no. The older cars though are more likely to have micarta.
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TSLAVO
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

I powder coated my 57' oval front beam with the bushing in it. i didn't clean the inner of the beam but mask taped and wire zipped both side to keep the grease from coming out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The bushing survived in the heat (most probably bakelite doesn't melt) but rotated in the beam when i re-assembled the torsion arm. I didnt notice the play when i disassemble them. I suspect the bakelite bushing shrank in the heat, i am not sure though.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I checked my beam tube id is about 45mm. I am thinking to get either bushing or needle bearing from WW. WW stated 46mm standard size of bearing. Very unlikely it will fit into 45mm beam. Anyone tried WW bearing in oval beam before? What is the id of the bearing? would it fit 37mm torsion arm?

Anyone know the OD of WW's bushing? I read in other thread the bushing's id is 34mm that i need a reamer. I would not be able to get a reamer in my country and i hate to get a machine shop trying to machine the micarta bushing that i have to ship all the way from US. God knows if the local machine shop could handle micarta material.

I would definitely use needle bearing if they are straight fit in the beam tube. I guess bearing is better since VW upgraded bushing to bearings in later model year.
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jason
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

I left the inners in mine, they came loose also. Probably do shrink. Have machine shop make some bronze bushings.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

Just when i was about to make bronze bushings, managed to find bushings 131 401 311 with vw/audi logo. They have the exact sizes i need, 45 DO x 37 ID, they are 12mm shorter than original though. Not sure what this bushing original for, couldnt allocate in the parts manual under front axle.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


VW classic parts carry them
https://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.de/en/lagerbuchse-bb59d4.html
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Ovally
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

According the Hoffmann Speedster site, 131 401 311 are inner bushings for Beetle/Karmann Ghia -7.65.
https://de.hoffmann-speedster.com/kaefer/vorderach...5?c=142787

They also sell these in a kind of plastic (repro), maybe nylon or Delrin.
https://de.hoffmann-speedster.com/kaefer/vorderach...5?c=142787

What I remember the outer bushings had grooves on the inside to keep the grease there for better lubrication.

Regards.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

Where can I get a set of 131 401 313 40mm od 37mm id 20mm wide split bushings for my 73 thing? Was going to install urethane but they will not fit no way I guess there different inner bushing for some ball joint front ends!
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1964 to 1954
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Torsion arm bushings Reply with quote

Does anyone have a VW274a for Type 1 reamer with bar that I can confirm a few things about? I have the cutter for 36-38mm that is used on a Hunger type H guide bar. I can buy a Hunger 1000mm long bar off Ebay in Germany. Question is how long is the factory bar for Type 1? Does the Type 1 bar have a step in it reducing the diameter by about 2mm mid way that allows the bar to pass through the center torsion bar retainer? If so how far from the tapered end until the step? I intended to buy the bar stock and have it turned to match original. I also wanted a picture of tapered end to see how factory did it.
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