School me on reduction boxes for a bug swing axle car

andk5591

done enough searching to get confused. Have a 67 T1 based project and I believe that I want to use reduction boxes to give added car height and gear reduction. I understand that if using a stock T1 tranny that the ring and pinion need flipped. Will be getting a rebuilt center section, so that should not be an issue.

BUT how does the rest of this work - Like do they attach to my trailing arms like the stock axles? assume longer stocks are needed. Anything else I need to be aware of? Like will my backing plates (T1) work, etc? Oh - how much track width increase?

P.S. This is not for an offroad car - will for a fairly light show/parade car, so I dont need to be concerned about a beefy trans itself.

Thanks in advance.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

71StandardReduction · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject:

To use reduction gears on a type1 trans
You have to remove the differential and install it on the opposite side of the pinion gear to gain reverse rotation.

You will have to purchase adapters to install your spring plates onto the reduction boxes.
Here is a set made by Bugzyla.com to adapt your spring plates to the reduction boxes.
These are available new on today's market and are the only adapters that I know to still be in production.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a video that shows how the reduction transaxle will operate on your beetle.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VJyqXabM2w8

If you can find a used John Johnson no hop kit, they are the most ideal adapters according to what I've researched.
I have the setup on my build.

I'm not sure of wether or not the type 1 backing plates will work.
The reduction transaxle will most likely have a larger braking capacity than that of which is on a type 1 swing axle.
I have a 1-ton rated setup which is quite larger than the type 1 braking components.

I haven't measured but If the track width is increased then it isn't enough to be noticeable while viewing the vehicle.
_________________
One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

https://youtube.com/@SCOFabwerx?feature=shared

andk5591 · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject:

Thanks - I am kind of confused what happend with the camber in the youtube. The no hop kit you mention seems to work like a traction bar or converts the rear into a 4 link, correct? Has nothing to do with the actual adapter?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

Ian · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject:

Here's how I did it on a 58 Baja...pretty straight forward. Extension was made out of 1/4" plate. One spacer block was steel and one was aluminum, I didn't make those.

_________________
All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012
**ACHTUNG DO NOT USE AA BRAND PRODUCTS OR BUY ANYTHING FROM PACIFIC PARTS INTERNATIONAL IN CALIFORNIA**

andk5591 · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:05 pm Post subject:

Thanks all so far - couple more questions - and once again pardon my ignorance.

#1 Big nut vs small nut reduction boxes. What's the difference? Does the vintage of drum you want to use dictate that or is it simply that the gears are heavier or different?

#2 Installing on a standard T1 - tranny - lookes like its the same as any axle install, correct?

#3 shocks - what are you running?

#4 backing plates, drums etc. do T1 parts work or do I need to use T2 specific?

Thanks again.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

71StandardReduction · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject:

andk5591 · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject:

OK - Making more sense to me - So if I was after best choice - would be a big nut 64-67. Assumption is more plentiful as well.

Yeah - knew about the gear flip in the transaxle.

And based on what you are saying, none of my Type1 parts will work with this. Probably E brake cables, but thats about it.

As far as shocks for a Typ1 with reduction boxes. What I meant was, do you buy a bus shock or a bug shock? Or is there a specific model KYB you used. I personall prefer the GRs (Excel).
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

71StandardReduction · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject:

Oh ok.
My shocks stayed type 1 with the anti hop kit brackets.

I'm not sure what you would do with other style adapters.
_________________
One thing I ask from the Lord, This only do I seek:
That I may dwell in the House of The Lord all the days of my Life, to gaze on the beauty of The Lord and to seek Him in His Temple~Psalms 27:4

YHWH NISSI
YHWH SHALOM

64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=

https://youtube.com/@SCOFabwerx?feature=shared

andk5591 · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:47 am Post subject:

3 questions

#1 How many inches lift does the box give (main axle center line to stub axle centerline.)

#2 seeing 2 different ways the trailing arm connects. The one shot shows it bolting to the "stock" type 1 location and the others bolt to the lower part of the redction box. A little confused.

#3 If trailing arm is bolted to the lower portion of the reduction box, do you grind off the stops on the torsion housing so the contril arms can run lower? And if so, I assume you would need to use some sort of limiting strap.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

manasteel · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject:

use the search, type in reduction. check the title box it will bring up a ton of information on the reduction boxes. joescoolcustomes has some good info as well for the jj no hop kit. one of the issues i found was to rebuild the reduction boxes is over $350 bearings and seals, and the axles that i was able to find were in pretty bad shape. so another $100 for axles. they get spendy quick, and that kind of money will go along way towards an irs conversion my 2 cents. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=502694&highlight=reduction

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject:

The reduction box give approx. 3in lift.
If you want to feel how a vehicle acts when power is applied, drive a 1967 and earlier type II with the setup.
It raises up in the rear when power is applied and can get really hairy when you do this in a corner.
My feelings after having driving 100s if not 1,000s of type II on road test when I was working on them for a living for years. Switching to a no hop setup is well worth it.
Both my Dad and I had Baja Bugs with home built No Hop setups. They are fairly easy to make if you know how to fabricate. It not that hard to build. There are many pictures of to see what you need to do. My lower links I used were from a Volvo in a wrecking yard. This was back in the 1970s, finding things maybe different now, but I sure you can find the parts and material needed to make the setup.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

andk5591 · Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject:

OK - I thank everyone for teaching me a lot more about these than I thought there was to know. But I think the pain in the ass and expense is going to outweigh the benefit. Thinking of exploring a different route, which will take me on a new info search.

Looked at a 70 Bay yesterday and obviously there are no reduction boxes. Since I will need to have a tranny rebuilt, I could just as easily go IRS and can mod the pan accordingly. With IRS, I have a lot more latitude with spring plate adjustment and can even add adjustable plates. (now just thinking while typing - you can get longer arms as well and I had seem where you use bus CVs and obvioulsy the axles need to longer. Figuring this has all been sorted out before, so will look at what gains I would have with this approach.

Thanks again.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...


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