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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| JeeJeeJason wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Good grief... Get a small mirror on a stick and a penlight and look at what you are dealing with first. All this Sturm und Drang and speculation *might* be over nothing.
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no no no, I'm having fun reading this |
Damn, I wasn't really meaning to be a party pooper here... 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| JeeJeeJason wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
Good grief... Get a small mirror on a stick and a penlight and look at what you are dealing with first. All this Sturm und Drang and speculation *might* be over nothing.
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no no no, I'm having fun reading this |
Damn, I wasn't really meaning to be a party pooper here... |
Nah, it wasn't you.....I think we had a "um...so...who invited this jerk?" reaction to "JeeJeeJason" and his unhelpful reply and no one wanted to say anything.
In the meantime, I've polished up our mirror and gotten our Time Sert kit ready for tackling this job on Saturday! |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7537
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Jee Jee wasn't really being a jerk, IMHO.
He was backing up what Tram was saying.
I'm of the same opinion - you are quite likely to get off easy on this one.
That's just a small 1/2 turn or so of aluminum in that plug thread.
I've seen them a lot worse...
If I could bet on it, I'd bet that you would get a fresh plug right in there without any shenanigans if you Hold Your Mouth Right...
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Jee Jee wasn't really being a jerk, IMHO.
He was backing up what Tram was saying.
I'm of the same opinion - you are quite likely to get off easy on this one.
That's just a small 1/2 turn or so of aluminum in that plug thread.
I've seen them a lot worse...
If I could bet on it, I'd bet that you would get a fresh plug right in there without any shenanigans if you Hold Your Mouth Right... |
It'd be nice to get off easy on this one....that doesn't always happen for us which is why we tend to over prepare for our repairs, especially when the car isn't running. When the car doesn't run, we get a $45 ticket every other day and have to spend the weekend laying in the street doing repairs which is kind of a drag in the winter. If we get stuck without a part or encounter an additional complication and haven't covered all our bases in advance, then it can be another week of tickets until we can get back to work now that it's cold and there's less daylight.
In any event, we're not trying to turn this into a body-off resto and we do have a rational approach. I figure these are the steps:
1) Mirror and light to see what's up
2) using a bit of hose, attempt to thread new plug (not dry) into the hole
3) if that fails, try a thread chaser and repeat step 2
4) if that fails, remove head, bust out the Time Sert kit, etc. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's done. What an absolutely satanic pain it was to do all of that with the engine in the car. The tin was so uncooperative (especially that front deflector tin), the wires and hoses were all stiff because of the cold, and we had a bunch of rounded off exhaust nuts. I don't even want to talk about why we had to take the muffler off or any of that crap. I'll never again try to do that extensive of a job leaving the motor in place!!!!!!!
Anyway, the plug threads were too messed up for a chaser to work, so we did the Time-Sert. It was a few threads too long so we cleaned up the chamber end with a Dremel.
Along the way, we made a few discoveries....all but 3 of the 15mm head nuts were only finger tight. Of course we got to re-torque those. Also, one of our 46mm exhaust nuts is a bit loose. Until we can get the correct wrench, I'm assuming it's still fine to drive that way? We've got a big trip next week, so if it's better to address the loose nut before then, I'll just take it to a shop. Also, the connector for the #3 injector is loose and likes to pop off.
Bobnotch, if you're out there, didn't you have a way of tightening the connectors using a thin piece of metal?
Just for fun, this is what our 3/4 combustion chambers (with Time-Sert on #3) look like.....Does the coloring of these valves indicate anything in particular?
And here's what the plugs looked like....1 and 2 (on the left)are a bit lighter than 3 and 4 and I'm not sure what that's about....
But that was also the case all the way back in June though both sides looked a little "leaner" then
3/4
1/2
[/quote] |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
Along the way, we made a few discoveries... Also, one of our 46mm exhaust nuts is a bit loose. Until we can get the correct wrench, I'm assuming it's still fine to drive that way? We've got a big trip next week, so if it's better to address the loose nut before then, I'll just take it to a shop. Also, the connector for the #3 injector is loose and likes to pop off.
Bobnotch, if you're out there, didn't you have a way of tightening the connectors using a thin piece of metal? |
Ideally, you want to tighten that 46mm nut up before you go. It's an exhaust leak, and it's semi close to the head (and valve).
What I normally do is insert a small diameter piece of welding rod to get the connector to slip off the terminal (it has a tab that needs to be bent down, so it'll slip off).
Then I'll lightly squeeze the terminal clamping curls a little tighter.
Then re-insert it back into the connector (be sure to "re-stand" the tab back up, so it'll lock back in), then do the other one the same way. Be very careful doing this, as you can break off part of the connecting terminal. 
You probably should contact Keith Park, and see about getting some spare D-jet terminals, for just in case something happens down the road (later date) I realize you've got a new JSM harness, but you never know.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Along the way, we made a few discoveries... Also, one of our 46mm exhaust nuts is a bit loose. Until we can get the correct wrench, I'm assuming it's still fine to drive that way? We've got a big trip next week, so if it's better to address the loose nut before then, I'll just take it to a shop. Also, the connector for the #3 injector is loose and likes to pop off.
Bobnotch, if you're out there, didn't you have a way of tightening the connectors using a thin piece of metal? |
Ideally, you want to tighten that 46mm nut up before you go. It's an exhaust leak, and it's semi close to the head (and valve).
What I normally do is insert a small diameter piece of welding rod to get the connector to slip off the terminal (it has a tab that needs to be bent down, so it'll slip off).
Then I'll lightly squeeze the terminal clamping curls a little tighter.
Then re-insert it back into the connector (be sure to "re-stand" the tab back up, so it'll lock back in), then do the other one the same way. Be very careful doing this, as you can break off part of the connecting terminal.
You probably should contact Keith Park, and see about getting some spare D-jet terminals, for just in case something happens down the road (later date) I realize you've got a new JSM harness, but you never know. |
Okay, sounds like maybe we need to practice that tightening procedure on our old junk harness before diving into this one. It is a JSM harness but this particular connector was always a little looser than the others for some reason.
If that 46mm nut needs to be tightened before we go away Weds. morning, I'm either going to have to use Channel Locks (and risk damaging the heat shield), go to a shop, or buy my own 46mm wrench. Will any old 46mm wrench suffice? Because I could also buy this one, use it, and return it so long as none of you rat me out to Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-Jumbo-Combination-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B001M0O15M |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Along the way, we made a few discoveries... Also, one of our 46mm exhaust nuts is a bit loose. Until we can get the correct wrench, I'm assuming it's still fine to drive that way? We've got a big trip next week, so if it's better to address the loose nut before then, I'll just take it to a shop. Also, the connector for the #3 injector is loose and likes to pop off.
Bobnotch, if you're out there, didn't you have a way of tightening the connectors using a thin piece of metal? |
Ideally, you want to tighten that 46mm nut up before you go. It's an exhaust leak, and it's semi close to the head (and valve).
What I normally do is insert a small diameter piece of welding rod to get the connector to slip off the terminal (it has a tab that needs to be bent down, so it'll slip off).
Then I'll lightly squeeze the terminal clamping curls a little tighter.
Then re-insert it back into the connector (be sure to "re-stand" the tab back up, so it'll lock back in), then do the other one the same way. Be very careful doing this, as you can break off part of the connecting terminal.
You probably should contact Keith Park, and see about getting some spare D-jet terminals, for just in case something happens down the road (later date) I realize you've got a new JSM harness, but you never know. |
Okay, sounds like maybe we need to practice that tightening procedure on our old junk harness before diving into this one. It is a JSM harness but this particular connector was always a little looser than the others for some reason.
If that 46mm nut needs to be tightened before we go away Weds. morning, I'm either going to have to use Channel Locks (and risk damaging the heat shield), go to a shop, or buy my own 46mm wrench. Will any old 46mm wrench suffice? Because I could also buy this one, use it, and return it so long as none of you rat me out to Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-Jumbo-Combination-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B001M0O15M |
PM me if you want to borrow one for the cost of postage. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33991
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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That wrench (in your link) is probably too thick. It has to be thinner to slide in to the nut. It doesn't take a lot of torque, but be VERY careful you don't cross-thread those fine threads! I loosened other fittings so I could jiggle it as I tried to catch the initial threads. There is a feel and some luck needed!
I would take up the offer for lending it. The right wrench will let you get it snug so it won't leak. It makes a lot of noise if it leaks, and the corrosive exhaust gas can further chew up the exposed threads if it is loose. Once that is in a few threads, snug it down and then re-tighten the other nuts you loosened. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
Along the way, we made a few discoveries... Also, one of our 46mm exhaust nuts is a bit loose. Until we can get the correct wrench, I'm assuming it's still fine to drive that way? We've got a big trip next week, so if it's better to address the loose nut before then, I'll just take it to a shop. Also, the connector for the #3 injector is loose and likes to pop off.
Bobnotch, if you're out there, didn't you have a way of tightening the connectors using a thin piece of metal? |
Ideally, you want to tighten that 46mm nut up before you go. It's an exhaust leak, and it's semi close to the head (and valve).
What I normally do is insert a small diameter piece of welding rod to get the connector to slip off the terminal (it has a tab that needs to be bent down, so it'll slip off).
Then I'll lightly squeeze the terminal clamping curls a little tighter.
Then re-insert it back into the connector (be sure to "re-stand" the tab back up, so it'll lock back in), then do the other one the same way. Be very careful doing this, as you can break off part of the connecting terminal.
You probably should contact Keith Park, and see about getting some spare D-jet terminals, for just in case something happens down the road (later date) I realize you've got a new JSM harness, but you never know. |
Okay, sounds like maybe we need to practice that tightening procedure on our old junk harness before diving into this one. It is a JSM harness but this particular connector was always a little looser than the others for some reason.
If that 46mm nut needs to be tightened before we go away Weds. morning, I'm either going to have to use Channel Locks (and risk damaging the heat shield), go to a shop, or buy my own 46mm wrench. Will any old 46mm wrench suffice? Because I could also buy this one, use it, and return it so long as none of you rat me out to Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-Jumbo-Combination-Ratcheting-Wrench/dp/B001M0O15M |
Better than that- check your email, ya chucklehead.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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JeeJeeJason
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2014
Posts: 234
Location: Bay area, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Jee Jee wasn't really being a jerk, IMHO.
He was backing up what Tram was saying.
I'm of the same opinion - you are quite likely to get off easy on this one.
That's just a small 1/2 turn or so of aluminum in that plug thread.
I've seen them a lot worse...
If I could bet on it, I'd bet that you would get a fresh plug right in there without any shenanigans if you Hold Your Mouth Right... |
At least someone gets me around here! Sorry if that came off as jerk-ish, dude, wasn't intended. Glad you're getting closer to figuring it out and I'm actually learning a thing or two by following this thread, so thanks! |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| It is a JSM harness but this particular connector was always a little looser than the others for some reason. |
If this is happening semi regularly, you might want to see if you can re-route it, so it's not putting a strain on the connector. Just a thought, that it might be how it's routed, that's causing it to loosen up.
I should mention, that my wife's car has an old harness (with new ends from Keith), that's been in place since 2008, and we haven't had an issue with it loosenng up in all these years. I did however spend some time setting the harness in place, paying attention to how it's routed so as to not put a strain on any of the connectors.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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FastyOrange
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2012
Posts: 110
Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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For what its worth, I was able to find a thin service wrench like the one ataraxia linked you to at a local tool shop. This shop is well known in my area for crazy high prices, but they had that wrench for somewhere in the $15-$20 range. It's definitely worth checking with your local shop to see what their prices are like. It can't hurt to get one for the tool bag if you find that this nut is working itself loose every so often.
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72 FI Fastback
70 FI Fastback (Parts Car) |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| They're available all over eBay if you look for 46mm wrench and can be had for about $25 shipped. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| It is a JSM harness but this particular connector was always a little looser than the others for some reason. |
If this is happening semi regularly, you might want to see if you can re-route it, so it's not putting a strain on the connector. Just a thought, that it might be how it's routed, that's causing it to loosen up.
I should mention, that my wife's car has an old harness (with new ends from Keith), that's been in place since 2008, and we haven't had an issue with it loosenng up in all these years. I did however spend some time setting the harness in place, paying attention to how it's routed so as to not put a strain on any of the connectors. |
When reconnecting the injectors the other day I wasn't able to find a way of running the harness that made the connectors stay put though I should try again because it occurs to me that #4 wasn't behaving either. What happens is I press the connectors on and they instantly "jump" back a bit. They don't fully disconnect but they don't fully seat either. Obviously, if they weren't seating at all I wouldn't be driving around but it does seem like over time this could lead to intermittent connectivity and other hassles. Kind of a drag given that the harness wasn't cheap and that I've personally only ever removed the connectors a handful of times....wasn't it Ray who said they're good for about 25 on/off cycles? We're not even close to that....maybe 5 on/offs if that. That's not a cut on the harness itself, just an expression of annoyance about the connectors.
In the midst of writing this, the doorbell rang and it was the 46mm wrench fairy...beautiful piece of work! And Bob, would that tin piece of metal in the pic suffice for your method of removing/tightening the connectors?
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| I actually answered my own question about how to remove the connectors from the injector plug....a long flat sewing machine needle, a paper clip, or even a safety pin were all fine. With some more practice on our junk harness, I'll feel okay about doing it on the one in the car! |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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One other thing about those connectors- the boot is designed to pull over the ridge on the injector side of the connection and will act as added insurance that the plug cannot come off.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 581
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a special holiday version of the misadventures....I hope everyone else is having a better Christmas eve! Today we packed up the car so we could head upstate for a little vacation. However, when I tried to start it, we discovered that the battery was dead.  luckily, we have more cars than we need and the beetle was parked just a few cars away up the street. Swapped batteries and all seemed well until Daniel heard a tapping coming from one of the relays under the seat. Power to the blower that has caused us trouble before seems to come directly from the battery, and as soon as the battery was connected, the relay that controls the blower was popping and clicking even though all heater blower controls were off. I tried to disconnect the ground wire to get it to stop but I received a gentle shock and had to disconnect the battery first This dang blower has continuously caused us trouble. First, it fell off and we had to get it mounted to the body. Then it drained the battery back in June...and I guess we didn't investigate the relay thoroughly enough. Might be time to lay the darn thing to rest for good!
Cut to an hour later...after suffering through traffic to get the heck out of the city and stopping at a rest stop because we forgot to eat...
(Thwop!)
-"What was that?"
-"Dunno. Sounded like something fell on top of the car"
15 min go by
-"What's that smell?"
-"Apple pie?"
-"An apple fell on the car and got stuck on the heater box? "
Then the smell seemed less sweet and more like a problem. Moving heat levers up and down confirmed that it was in the heating system.
Got off the highway at the next stop and discovered that the elbow that connects the fan shroud to the heat exchanger was missing!! AND the heater box was smoking!!!
Now, I was the last to touch the clamps over the weekend, so I was feeling pretty foolish. We happened to be across the street from a Lowe's...but it was closed. Luckily, Daniel quickly realized we could re-purpose the long paper hose that ran from the cursed blower to the passenger side elbow. So I wrangled the hose into an elbow of sorts. The repair job is far from pretty, but I made sure the hose "fit" by slicing the end to open up the diameter. I was determined to avoid getting towed back to Brooklyn! The contraption is secured with lots of high temperature tape which we were lucky to have in the car because it usually lives in the beetle...and on Christmas eve our options were limited!
Did I mention that today was a crappy rainy day and that all this was done while laying in water at a gas station?!?
The cheap ass fix managed to get us to our destination, and should probably get us home, but we'd obviously like ideas for a longer term fix while we try to find a replacement elbow. Of course, this is one of the rarest parts on our car because the elbow has some flaps inside and was designed to go with our (not connected) gas heater. To make matters worse, we lost an elbow once before when the car was first drivable so my new plan is to safety wire the next one in place!).
Tomorrow everything around here in the mountains will be closed but will be open on the 26th, so I wonder what kind of hose we should look for? What diameter, material, etc.? I'm also not opposed to the paper hoses unless someone has a story about them burning up... |
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RocketA
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2011
Posts: 453
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Wow you guys don't even catch a break on the holidays!
You probably don't need me to tell you that if your heater box overheated then your head probably did too. What that means long term I'm not smart enough to know. Probably depends on how long you drove it that way.
If you need something to get you home you could probably go to a NAPA, Auto Zone or even a Home Depot and find a temporary solution with some better flex hose or even ducting. If you're using the Beetle style fan shroud hose it's probably pinching off in the bend which is restricting your air flow.
I don't know the diameter of the hose you need but maybe one of the heavy hitters on here will pipe in after their Christmas dinner.
Good luck!!! |
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