Hazard Switch Wiring

Karmann_65 · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject: Hazard Switch Wiring

I'm in the middle of a complete rewire and need some help with the hazard switch wiring please.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

On the diagram above item J1 is described as "flasher and emergency light relay". Item G1 is the "emergency light switch".

My question is why does the "relay" have an opening for a switch? if G1 serves this function? Which should I fasten to the dash?

Ideally I want to use G1 for my switch (see below) so what happens with J1 in this case?

J1

G1

Marlonius · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject:

What year of car are you wiring?

The second switch photo you show looks like what I have in my '66 Ghia with a 9 pin flasher relay.

The first switch you show looks bigger like it might have more connections on it - this would be for a 68 + car.

I can't check from work here, but by memory, the Bentley manual 66-69 wiring diagram has some inaccuracies because it's trying to cover several years of cars that have some minor differences. However, there is a little partial diagram elsewhere in the book that was accurate for the flasher circuit for the '66.

Karmann_65 · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject:

It's a '66 and I'm trying to work with what I've got for the moment. I searched far and wide to find a red pull switch that wasn't broken and would dearly love to use it. Do you think I have the wrong "J1" item? Is this actually a switch or a relay? Part number is 111 953 235 F (the switch opening is a bigger diameter than G1 has)

Marlonius · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject:

The item that is labelled "J1" in the diagram is a relay. It's a black box, about 3"x3" x 1" with many wires terminated to it.

The diagram isn't exact for a '66 though. I can look in my records tonight to see what I did to get it all working. I remember finding a second drawing of the flasher circuit only in the blue bentley manual that was correct for the 66.

Your first photo looks like a later switch. That one would go with a 4 pin flasher relay since a lot of the "intelligence" of the system is within the switch itself.

Here is what the relay for a '66 looks like:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1614874

It goes with the red knob from your 2nd photo.

You're describing this one, which matches the 68+ cars. It is just a switch, not a relay:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1461664

It would go with a 4 pin relay.

I'd suggest looking for how to wire a 68+ flasher if you want to use what you have there.

Karmann_65 · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject:

Thank you Marlonious. My 66 hasnt been on the road for over 20 years and the wiring is a bit of a mix n match

c21darrel · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject:

Marlonius · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject:

PS: Are you on 6 V or 12 V at the present? I suspect 12 V as you have some components from a 12 car there, namely the later switch.

If this is the case, and if you want to go to a stock '66 appearance, the 9 pin 12 V connector from a 67 beetle or Ghia is a direct swap into a stock '66 wiring harness. The 6V switch that you pictured will also work, but you'd have to change the bulb to 12V.

Karmann_65 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:30 am Post subject:

Marlonius · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:03 am Post subject:

It's a rainy day here, so it's a good time to snap a picture or 2 of my stash and see what I have in the archives to get you sorted...

Here is the proper wiring diagram for a 66 or 67 flasher/turn signal circuit. As I mentioned, it's different from what is on the main diagram you posted earlier.

The wiring is the same for a 6V 1966 model or a 12V 1967 model. The only difference is that the components are for 6V in the 66 and 12 V in the 67.

Here is a photo of some parts from my stash.

The 12 V relay on the right is identical to the 6V relay on the left. Even the terminal positioning is the same (1 is upside down in the photo so it's not obvious, but look carefully).

Note, I removed the top of my spare flasher switch for the photo - you can see how the little bulb goes in there.

I haven't seen a photo of any relay in what you have on hand. It looks like you have a 68+ switch and a 66 switch. You need to get a relay in there to make it all work. So far I've just seen 2 switches.

For stock appearance on a 12V system, you should look for a 9 pin 12 V relay like the one in my photo, and switch the little bulb in your red 66 only switch for a 12 one.

I don't know how much you want to spend or how available parts are to you in the UK, but there is a nice reproduction relay made and available in Canada and USA:

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D211%2D953%2D227%2DB

There are also a number of original 12 V 9pin relays for sale on the classifieds here, but they carry with them the usual risks of them not working as most will be untested.

You say your car is in pieces - have you searched out all the parts and looked for a relay in there? You may have a smaller 12 V relay with 3 or 4 terminals on it which would be useable with the larger switch you showed, though your switch was missing the pull knob in the photo.

I hope this helps.

M.

Marlonius · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:08 am Post subject:

PS: There's also this one if you want to go full hog:

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D211%2D953%2D227%2DB

Karmann_65 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:45 am Post subject:

Great reply Marlonius thank you.

Ordering parts for the US to the UK can be frighteningly expensive by the time postage (especially Cip1) and import duty are added, and so can buying the parts here. I found a place that sells 9 pin relays (new) for £55 Shocked

. I'll let you do the monetary conversion to US $.

What is the part number please of the 12v relay you have pictured? That looks just the ticket.

I have a couple of later model flashing switches that I can take a 12v bulb from. Wink

Marlonius · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:48 am Post subject:

You're very welcome!

The part I have here is 211.953.227B. I got it out of a junkyard or at a swap meet somewhere along the way. I intend to try it out one day when I upgrade my '66 to 12V.

Edit to add: I believe there are several parts that will do the job that may have different numbers than this. The main thing is it's a 9 pin, 12V relay.

Let us know how you make out. How far along are you on the car in general, by the way?

Cheers.

M.

Karmann_65 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:03 am Post subject:

Look up NOOB story on this Ghia forum for a progress update. The wiring was always going to be a big task for me but its going well for the most part.

Marlonius · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject:

Nice work, I just read through your entire thread and am now caught up. You did some really nice metal work.

In some of your early pictures, it looked like you had a '67-only hazard switch in there, by the way. That suggests you might already have a '67 9 pin relay in your boxes somewhere...

sputnick60 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject:

I used the Wolfberg West relay set with success.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211953227BWW
It replaced a NOS 12V relay set I purchased and turned out to be faulty. I bought two to keep one as a spare.

WW has them for $60 where CIP has them for $80 to $90

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Karmann_65 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject:

When I first got the car some electrics had to be changed to pass UK inspection (MOT). Probably explains the wrong parts even on the early photos. I looked through my boxes of bits so many times and the relay isnt there. Sad

I need to update the build thread and will do soon. It's been an enjoyable first full project and I'm really looking forward to driving it.

Thanks Nicholas for the WW link. Your car has been a big influence on my build.

BMAN130 · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject:

what abut a 72 switch, can someone help me figure this out..

complete rewire

-Zodiac- · Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject:

im not sure what you need, here is the diagram - look at E3

_________________
1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

Disc · Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:01 am Post subject:

There is a alternative method to mimics 9 prong relay - it's cheaper way, for sure not original! It involves 3 relays and a lot of wires (Karmann Ghia does not use 54 and 54f terminals, so you can skip 1 relay) - can be used while you source original or replacement 9 prong relay.

More here:

http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html
_________________
The glory never gets old, just need new paint.
-------------------------------------------------
Nick

BMAN130 · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject:

can't open that


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