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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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So with all the above said. Short of full flowing the engine, Which oil filter pump of that type would all of your recomend for a stock 1600cc engine?
Roy chime in for sure as it seems you use them.
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Mad Manx
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 304
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
For some it is rare for them to see something as a bad idea especially if they sell it. If it works it can't be bad.
Dan |
I actually BUILD engines with them and see good oil pressure and no leaks. |
I am with you Roy, I have used this type of filter pump for years without any of the horse shit problems - leaks or over heating that people babble about on the forum. That being said, everyone has an opinion and of course theirs is always correct and the best.  And do put an oil temp unit there, if it's not bypassing you will not get a good reading. |
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mad Manx wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Dan Ruddock wrote: |
For some it is rare for them to see something as a bad idea especially if they sell it. If it works it can't be bad.
Dan |
I actually BUILD engines with them and see good oil pressure and no leaks. |
I am with you Roy, I have used this type of filter pump for years without any of the horse shit problems - leaks or over heating that people babble about on the forum. That being said, everyone has an opinion and of course theirs is always correct and the best. And do put an oil temp unit there, if it's not bypassing you will not get a good reading. |
I built a personal use engine many years ago with a filter/pump and it kept blowing out the filter seal (gears too big).
If you are going to use a pump that big you need to modify the oil system to handle all that volume. The makers and sellers don't tell you about that or the problems that too much volume can create.
All a pump that big does is run a large percentage of the oil volume threw the bleed off port back to the sump and waists HP doing it.
Yea sure it works in many cases but I would not call it ideal. Hot air blowing on the filter is not ideal but how much does it heat the oil? Hard to know.
Something that works and something that works well are two different things.
Dan |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:44 am Post subject: |
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I've been running a 26mm geared CB filter-pump for over 10 years on my daily driver. I think it works just fine but there can be issues, as with anything not thought through.
For over 5000 RPm I'd recommend porting the oil passages in the pump and cover and match port them for more flow. Sand the pump cover and gears for .002" end play and run no gasket, just light RTV.
Don't run a larger oil pump unless there is a reason the engine needs more flow. Even with all clearances highside, 26mm is good with 20-50 oil, but oil-moving mods beyond that possibly need larger pump. Such as piston coolers, spread cases, dead lifter bores, excessive hoovermodin', turbos or possibly some hydro lifters |
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Mad Manx
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 304
Location: Redondo Beach California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Just to clarify the things Dan and modok brought up, I said that I used that style pump, not the 32mm cheap Empi pump. I do match port all of the passages and I use a Canton oil filter with heat deflectors on it. Again do NOT put an oil temp sender in the pressure relief hole, if the pump even have one.
On a mild street engine this type of filter pump can work fine if you use the correct one and set it up correctly IMHO.
My big expensive engine is full flowed with a Canton filter and all oil passages have clearance.  |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LivinInnaVWBus wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Just FYI to anyone else reading.....none of that information is correct. |
In attempts to alleviate an online pissing contest, I'm going to leave this comment and topic alone. Ultimately, it is harley909's engine to do with as he pleases and listen to who he places his trust in. Harley909, I encourage you to do your own research far and beyond this post. The link below is a good place to start. There is a wealth of information (including buyer/seller feedback) easily accessible on thesamba which will allow you to find the answers to make your own judgements on if you're purchasing the correct parts and trusting the proper person with the information they have provided. Keep an eye out for and take into consideration negative reviews and locked topics. Shoptalkforum, Rippoffreport, Aircooled.net and VWvortex are other sites which may peak your interest and answer any further inquires. [email protected] is VERY educated on this topic as well and any advice he gives, is certain to point you in the right direction.
You will also notice, you may be doing TONS of reading to find the answers you're looking for, don't let this detour you as most of the information you will be reading through will be necessary for the life of your air cooled VW.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467803&highlight=importance+choosing |
One of these guys mention above as "very educated on the topic" has advocated that 240F is a fine oil temperature for standard running. I disagree, he declares I "parrot nonsense" in advocating a lower oil temperature. I think he is nuts with that recommendation. Beware of what you read, some advice is dead wrong, others is suspect and a little of it is dead nuts right.
Beware of some of the advice out there. stick with factory oil weight recommendations to be safe.
for oil temp gauge sendor location, many folks try to get a reading of the oil in the sump. that way when folks talk oil temp you have a comparison. I have also seen oil temp sendors mounted in the stock oil pressure sendor hole, on the case. here the sendor sees oil just out of the pump, and I have found that oil temps here are very very close to sump temperature. I would assume the oil out the pump where you suggest a sendor location would be fine, you will be reading very close to sump temperature.
Beware that any temp sendor does NOT protrude into the oil passage enough to restrict the oil flow. VDO makes different length sendors to help get around this problem
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Bajaman65
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Borrego Springs
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Beware of what you read, some advice is dead wrong, others is suspect and a little of it is dead nuts right. |
This the year 2015 and a lot of things have come a long - long ways, I think you are dead wrong. John at ACN is very knowable, I know because I have been doing it even longer than he has and we see eye to eye on most things. |
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Boolean
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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If the hot air is 1 degree cooler than the oil, it will cool the oil. Which is ideal.
It seems pretty easy to stick some kind of thermometer into the air outlet to find out.
I personally think that heat from the exhaust is worse.
I may be wrong.
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VWCOOL
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 1821
Location: Down under
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I run 240++ oil temps - every time my race car is started (except drag racing). This is not during 'normal' running around town but this is an 'acceptable' temp of the oil when the engine is working harder such as in spirited driving/motorsport. It cruises on the street at these temps, too,
The oil and metallurgy can cope with that. but many people confuse routine high oil temps, and a high-temp condition being a SYMPTOM of a compromised or ineffective cooling system
Oil temp should be measured when it is at its maximum - the most practical way to do this in a VW motor is at the 'high tide' mark in the case... at the top of the sump and when it has just drained from the heads and piston crowns
Measuring oil temps at the oil pump, or half-way along the motor, or after the cooler, or at the left-front mudguard, or at the interior light or anywhere else is a total waste of time |
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