Help, I'm too stupid to get the oil pan off of a 1Y diesel!

[bugeye72]

Hi everybody, I just this week got a 1Y 1.9NA diesel to replace the now dead 1.6 in my van. The engine I got came out of a Golf 3, and I'm stripping it of all the golf ancillaries so I can put all the vanagon stuff on it. I've removed all of the oil pan bolts, and the oil pan dropped down about 1/2" but it is hung up on something, and I can't get it off. I can see inside the pan a little bit, and I can see that there is a windage tray in the pan. I'm guessing that the oil pump pickup goes down through a hole in the windage tray to get to the bottom of the sump, and this is what is preventing the pan from coming off. I've tried to lever it off with about as much force as I feel is wise, anything more will damage something. I've jiggled the pan every way I can manage, but it's not coming. There must be something I'm not seeing here. Anyone know a trick? By now, it's going through my head that I will not be using this oil pan, or oil pump pickup, so why don't i just rip it the hell off of there, but I'd rather do it the smart guy way. Thanks!

[?Waldo?]

It sounds like the windage tray is stuck to the pan. Probably someone glued it on with sealant.

[bugeye72]

That's exactly what it was. I buggered the tray up pretty badly getting it apart, but I wasn't going to use it anyway. Whatever the sealant was, it was some pretty bombproof stuff that shouldn't have been used for this application. On to the next thing…..

[?Waldo?]

I think using the windage tray is a really good idea on the vanagon. I believe it helps keep oil in the pan on those extended right turns.

[83_87wf]

One problem to note when using the windage tray on a diesel vanagon, The windage tray is thicker than the stock gasket, so the clearance holes in the bell housing needed to be opened up else the bell housing to oil pan bolts prevent the gasket from sealing.
Brent

[denwood]

The windage tray's integrated gasket is much better than the stock gasket. Mine is on there with no sealant..zero leaks in a decade or so. You should source the later model rubber one piece valve cover gasket too as the cork version will leak. Techtonicstuning ships these with a stud kit.

On a 2liter i4 conversion you should 100% use the windage tray as the 2 liter crank will aerate oil at stock fill level. I confirmed this with an oil pressure gauge, and Frank Grunthaler confirmed it with a borescope on a running engine.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[cawvin]

When I'm mating the trans and engine, I notice a small gap between the bellhousing and the oil pan. Should I loosen my oilpan-to-block bolts before tightening the bellhousing-to-oilpan bolts? Or is something else arwy..
Thanks for any insight

[Jeffrey Lee]

Depending on whether your engine is in the van or out will determine the proper procedure, but Bentley 17.6 spells it out:

"CAUTION
Oil pan must be flush with end face of engine block. If it protrudes or there is a gap, clutch housing will be stressed and could break."

[Gnarlodious]

I did this in the summer and had the same problem. Yes, loosen your allen bolts just so the pan can slide then bolt down the bellhousing to pull the pan flush. After that tighten your pan bolts. This makes an even surface for the pan to contact the bellhousing, aligning it with the rest of the engine.
_________________
Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[cawvin]

Next question: how the HECK do I reach the last two oil pan bolts (behind the flywheel) to take off this oil pan? I pulled off the transmission, but it wasn't the bellhousing that was blocking my access, it's the flywheel. I hope I don't have to take that off to remove my oil pan. My only hope is a 1/4" drive 10mm wobble socket, which will get here tuesday. (Tried the 3/8" drive socket and it was too chunky to get up in there).
I vaguely remember someone making reference to a special trick, but couldn't find it when I searched here.

Edit to add: I'm using the AHU Tdi flywheel, and sadly, the last two oil pan bolts are not allen-heads...

[Jeffrey Lee]

For the sake of consistency, might want to replace the hex head bolts with Allen socket-heads ...

In any case, for the benefit of others who may have the more usual bolts: as you say, the usual hex drivers with 3/8" drives have shanks too large to fit up in there, so I made a tool to reach it. I simply cut up an old Allen key of the correct size and slipped it into a matching slim 1/4"-drive socket.

Remember to torque them to the proper spec ...

Good luck!

[ALIKA T3]

[rotaecho]

Question about the windage tray,

I'm about to install an AHU engine 50 deg in my 82' diesel, so putting on the DV oil pan.

I got a Windage Tray from Greaseworks here: https://www.greaseworks.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=341

p/n 037 115 220B

The seal is mated to the metal windage tray and not removable from what I can tell. I've read in various places to use sealant or not to use sealant. So, figured I'd ask here too.

The site mentions: "In addition to this oil pan baffle, we recommend using a VW spec oil pan sealant on both sides of this rubber gasket, and is especially important on a 50* install (stock Vanagon diesel position) as the oil level sits above the oil pan/block mating surface."

So, my question is should I use sealant or not? [/url]
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[?Waldo?]

I usually put a small amount where the block meets the seal carriers. If the seal carrier gaskets are at all proud of the pan surface, I trim them with a razor blade.

[rotaecho]

Thanks Andrew. When you mean "seal carriers", do you mean the center of the rubber seal going around the windage tray to the block?

[?Waldo?]

No, I mean the two aluminum plates that are bolted to the two ends of the block that house the two crankshaft seals.

[Gnarlodious]

I use sealant too, never had leakage.
_________________
Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[rotaecho]

Cool, so this was the procedure I was thinking to use on the oil-pan:

1.) Loosely mount the oil-pump with the two bolts to let it dangle enough to let a half inch to 3/4th inch available from the windage tray and the engine block.

2.) Light coating of sealant around the rubber seal & center track of the seal as also where Andrew mentioned.

3.) Hold windage tray one hand while tightening the bolts on the oil-pump to torque.

3a. use a oil-pan bolts on each corner loosely to makes ure the holes line up with the seal then start torquing counter clockwise till all are close to loose.

4.) Readjust windage tray / oil-pan; should it be pushed more one way or another? (pulley vs clutch side) ?

5.) Torque bolts to spec in a counte clockwise fashion the rest of the way.

Does this sound like the proper procedure to go?
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[?Waldo?]

The pan really shouldn't be torqued onto the block until the block is mated to the transmission because there are two trans bolts that go into the pan. If the pan is bolted to the block before being mated to the trans you run the risk of the pan to trans being out of alignment with the block to trans. If there is misalignment, then when the engine, pan, and trans are bolted together it can overstress the pan and crack it.

After the engine is mated to trans, I install all the pan bolts loosely, then snug the two pan to trans bolts, back them off a little, snug all the pan bolts, torque everything.

I do not put sealant on the windage tray except where the block meats the seal carriers unless it was leaking previously and I am reusing it. Just a dab in each of the 4 locations.

[rotaecho]

Thanks Andrew, I'll use that install method too. Just ordered the remaining of the engine parts, so start to put it together and start it up hopefully by June.