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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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 Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:46 am Post subject: Rust in quarter window |
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Hey, had a search before I posted to see if there was anything on rear quarter window rust, but had no luck.
Basically I've got rust problems.
After using a screwdriver to remove chunks and then hitting it with a grinder for a bit.
Is it best to cut out the whole section and replace it? Or can I fill the pitted areas with lead or something? Ie metal brush, sand as much rust out as possible, apply anti rust, fill with lead. Is that the right process or am I asking for trouble? Better to mig weld all the small holes?
I haven't done any body work before. I have a mig welder and use it a little bit, but usually on larger parts (thicker). What is the best way to go about fixing this? I have a donor car (subaru liberty) which I can cut parts off if sheet metal is required. I also have access to a forge (anvil etc) as I just started blacksmithing. I have most basic tools, not dollys and body hammers though.
I kind of need to do it in a hurry also, so worst case scenario I just do a quick job that will last 10 years or so. I'd rather not, but if its like a 10 hour process I can't really afford that amount of time.
Liberty donor;
Open to suggestions, like I said, I haven't done body work before so I'm no expert. Also I've currently got 0.8mm flux cored wire in the mig welder, is this too thick? Do I need to get some 0.6mm and some argon gas?
Thanks in advance!
~Danz |
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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 2983
Location: RI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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I would cut out all rust until you get into solid uniform thick steel. Then make patches to fill the holes that are left, and MIG them in. Epoxy prime, light filler and paint. Since most, if not all of it will be under the new quarter window rubber you're going to install, it shouldn't be noticeable at all.
_________________
scrapyards are for quitters
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| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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57BLITZ
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Joined: June 12, 2012
Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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looks like someone took a shortcut last time by smearing filler over rust . . . how long did that last?
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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| beetlenut wrote: |
| I would cut out all rust until you get into solid uniform thick steel. Then make patches to fill the holes that are left, and MIG them in. Epoxy prime, light filler and paint. Since most, if not all of it will be under the new quarter window rubber you're going to install, it shouldn't be noticeable at all. |
So how far down do you suggest? Take of before the pitted rust crevices are (just after paint) or after the crevices (before the lip) and replace the lip?
How would you ensure that the crevices won't bleed rust back out as well as fill them, anti rust then poly filler? Those holes are probably about 6mm wide ATM, once cleaned up they maybe larger. Still worth patching, over slowly spot welding (building up) around the outside? |
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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 2983
Location: RI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Danzzigger wrote: |
| beetlenut wrote: |
| I would cut out all rust until you get into solid uniform thick steel. Then make patches to fill the holes that are left, and MIG them in. Epoxy prime, light filler and paint. Since most, if not all of it will be under the new quarter window rubber you're going to install, it shouldn't be noticeable at all. |
So how far down do you suggest? Take of before the pitted rust crevices are (just after paint) or after the crevices (before the lip) and replace the lip?
How would you ensure that the crevices won't bleed rust back out as well as fill them, anti rust then poly filler? Those holes are probably about 6mm wide ATM, once cleaned up they maybe larger. Still worth patching, over slowly spot welding (building up) around the outside? |
Thing is, you need to get into uniform, solid steel again. When you try and weld to that pitted metal, because it is thinner than the surrounding metal, you'll just blow holes through the metal. So it depends how much metal you have to cut out to get to that point. If it was me, I'd cut the bottom section of a quarter window out of a donor car and weld that in. That way you wouldn't have to fabricate the compound curve of that section, and you'd be welding in the same thickness OG metal.
_________________
scrapyards are for quitters
---------------------------------------
| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| 57BLITZ wrote: |
| looks like someone took a shortcut last time by smearing filler over rust . . . how long did that last? |
Had the car for about 4 years. Hadn't noticed it at first so maybe it held up till now. Saw it about a year ago. |
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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| beetlenut wrote: |
| Danzzigger wrote: |
| beetlenut wrote: |
| I would cut out all rust until you get into solid uniform thick steel. Then make patches to fill the holes that are left, and MIG them in. Epoxy prime, light filler and paint. Since most, if not all of it will be under the new quarter window rubber you're going to install, it shouldn't be noticeable at all. |
So how far down do you suggest? Take of before the pitted rust crevices are (just after paint) or after the crevices (before the lip) and replace the lip?
How would you ensure that the crevices won't bleed rust back out as well as fill them, anti rust then poly filler? Those holes are probably about 6mm wide ATM, once cleaned up they maybe larger. Still worth patching, over slowly spot welding (building up) around the outside? |
Thing is, you need to get into uniform, solid steel again. When you try and weld to that pitted metal, because it is thinner than the surrounding metal, you'll just blow holes through the metal. So it depends how much metal you have to cut out to get to that point. If it was me, I'd cut the bottom section of a quarter window out of a donor car and weld that in. That way you wouldn't have to fabricate the compound curve of that section, and you'd be welding in the same thickness OG metal. |
Fair point. Guess I want to try and make use of what I have if possible. But if what I'm trying to do is impossible then maybe I'll get a vw quarter panel. Just don't know how easy it'll be to find one considering that it's probably one of the most common areas. They don't sell brand new ones in the U.S do they? Gotta get a new seal anyway.
Thanks for your help btw. Much appreciated  |
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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Also what does everyone do whilst welding on a beetle? Remove negative battery wire. Earth the welder as close as possible to the welding area, and does anyone do anything with the alternator / generator? |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Danzzigger wrote: |
| Also what does everyone do whilst welding on a beetle? Remove negative battery wire. Earth the welder as close as possible to the welding area, and does anyone do anything with the alternator / generator? |
That will be sufficient.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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57BLITZ
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012
Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Danzzigger wrote: |
| They don't sell brand new ones in the U.S do they? |
I don't think so.
It's not bad fabricating that section from new sheet metal. I posted some photos in this thread showing how I made a patch section . . .
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
Adjust the shape of the hammerform as needed.
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Jesucristo es mi Seņor y Salvador! |
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Danzzigger
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2010
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| 57BLITZ wrote: |
| Danzzigger wrote: |
| They don't sell brand new ones in the U.S do they? |
I don't think so.
It's not bad fabricating that section from new sheet metal. I posted some photos in this thread showing how I made a patch section . . .
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=
Adjust the shape of the hammerform as needed. |
Hmmm I am a cabinet maker and have all those resources except for the hammer. But I'm always looking to
Increase my tools. Looks like that might be the go if that door section from the liberty isn't the right size.
Thanks for that. How do you bead weld the new piece in. Is it done really slowly and on low settings with the welder. Also do you stop every inch or so to cool it down with water or something? Would a tig welder be better? |
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57BLITZ
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2012
Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I find that it is easiest for me if the gaps are as close as possible. I MIG weld the panel by tacking every couple inches . . . let the welds cool in the ambient . . . do not force the cooling. Then tack weld in between and repeat.
I use small wire (.024"), but not necessarily the LOWEST heat setting because I want the weld to penetrate in as SHORT a time as possible.
You have the advantage that the area you are welding is on that rolled portion near the window seal so warping should not be too severe.
The deadblow hammer was under ten dollars . . . very much worth it!
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