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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:23 pm Post subject: Subhatch Hinge Washers and Pin Sealing |
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Can someone explain how the subhatch hinge pins were sealed?
I am refering to the hinge pins that mount through the roof.
I assume there was some type of rubber gasket under the thick pin washers; can someone post a couple pic of what they are using; mine were completly rotted away.
Was there any sealing caulk used between the pin washers and pin?
Seems water could get in the and sit and cause rust if not sealed. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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yes there was a rubber washer, its about 1/8" thick and maybe 1/8" larger in diameter than the aluminum washer. I found something perfect at my local hardware store, they should have a large selection of rubber washers.
and yes I used a bit of sealant under the rubber washer and also a little down the hole to minimize leakage.
still not the best design regardless... _________________ drive your split. |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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The ones in our blue '56 were circles cut from the deck mat material, I forget if the corrugated side was up or down. I used 3m glazing compound to seal it, which is basically a $20 tube of roofing tar. |
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earlywesty Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004 Posts: 2356 Location: In the woods, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:39 am Post subject: |
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sled wrote: |
yes there was a rubber washer, its about 1/8" thick and maybe 1/8" larger in diameter than the aluminum washer. I found something perfect at my local hardware store, they should have a large selection of rubber washers.
and yes I used a bit of sealant under the rubber washer and also a little down the hole to minimize leakage.
still not the best design regardless... |
In both my '58s it was this, as Jake said. Neither had the same material as the rear rubber mat, with the corrugations on one side. I used the WW vent wing seal rubber as I had some lying around and the circles are easy to make. |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replys.
Yeah the hinges are not the best design for sure; too many places for water to get in and leak.
Now I need some stainless 6mm rod to complete my hinges.
If I find extra material i'll cut a couple extra sets and post in the classifideds if anyone is interested. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Someone was asking about the thick steel washers that are under the hinge pins . . .
There are thick steel washers that are part of the hinge pins on the roof of the bus; I had to make some b/c mine were very deteriorated. They are roughly 9mm thick.
I could not locate any off the shelf.
There are aluminum washers that are about 1mm thick that go under the aluminum acorn nuts on the inside of the bus. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Instead of starting a new thread , I thought I would add this here.
Also looking for ideas on what to use to seal the roof tent mounts.
There was a thick rubber pad under the mounts.
I doubt the original is going to seal very well now. What have others used?
I guess I could spread a thin layer of sealing caulk on the og pad and bolt it down? I would rather replace it if possible. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: |
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StockNazi wrote: |
Thanks for the replys.
Yeah the hinges are not the best design for sure; too many places for water to get in and leak.
Now I need some stainless 6mm rod to complete my hinges.
If I find extra material i'll cut a couple extra sets and post in the classifideds if anyone is interested. |
FWIW, make the length of the threaded part longer than you think you need, and then cut it to length after it is fitted.
The og hinges from the 56 were rusted/broken, and we used ones from other buses. This was fine with the deteriorated / rotted wood bows, but after replacing the rotted #1 bow, the front hinge bolts were too short. I had to leave the fat washer off one of them, and then the acorn nut only went on one and half or two threads. We swapped hinges, so the longer one was in the front, as I was concerned about if the nut came off the hatch could fly off.
Also, the height from the roof to where the hinge pin goes into the hinge is crucial. I was unable to have proper sealage in there, which made it a bit cool at night. I used the old og door seals from 1956, and carved a bit out for the nut from the rubber buffer.
It would be interesting to compare the og hinges from that bus, which I think I have in a box somewhere, and the ones on it now.
Greg is going to have to make another hinge.
Re: tent mounts, the ones on the 66 kombi don't leak. I forget what we did there whether it was old seals or new ones or tar. That bus sits outside in 50 inches of rain a year, though. |
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jjjjack Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005 Posts: 1013 Location: Gainesville, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Just removed my subhatch so I could repaint (the original Westfalia applied paint is too far gone). Here are some pics of the original mounts. Someone had gobbed them up with silicone years ago, but I peeled it off and cleaned them up a little. I'm trying to understand the spray (or brush, though they appear to be sprayed) pattern. The rubber seals were painted along with everything else. It looks like the posts were painted with the washers/seals slid up to about 1/2 inch from the heads. Since there's also paint on the threads below, they must have been painted off the vehicle, I guess?
The other three were perfectly round, but this seal has a little crescent shape cutout:
_________________ Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
IG:j.stenner |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Sure does look like they were painted with the washers and seals on the shaft. Yours look to be in much better shape than mine were; I had to make some new washers for mine.
The little notch looks like where it was butted up against the subhatch opening. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I should post pics of the ones from my 56. They were clearly cut at the ends, while yours look like a factory end. |
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zuggbug Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008 Posts: 3479 Location: Anderson SC
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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The above pics are the washers that came off my Subhatch. From the pics from Jack posted and the discription from Doug, it appears the steel washers are not correct. Can anyone give me the O.D. I.D and thickness of the steel washers?
Thank you _________________ SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Those look like what came off our January '56 bus, and I'm pretty sure they were original. |
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jjjjack Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005 Posts: 1013 Location: Gainesville, FL
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, and like Clara mentioned, there are clearly differences from '56 to '59 (June 30th for mine), so it wouldn't surprise me if yours are original. I imagine they were dealing with sealing issues and also just "professionalizing" the manufacturing and installation as it became apparent they'd be making more campers. The "washers" on mine are more like machined parts than washers. They are 25mm in diameter and 5mm in height with a very well defined 1mm chamfer around the edge.
Can't wait to see your bus! _________________ Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
IG:j.stenner |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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campingbox wrote: |
Those look like what came off our January '56 bus, and I'm pretty sure they were original. |
Pictures -
Thick .076"
ID .334"
OD 1.023"
Subtract some for paint and primer. These are the originals from our Jan '56 bus. |
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zuggbug Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008 Posts: 3479 Location: Anderson SC
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Greg, those are the same size as mine.
Glad to know I don't have to get some made _________________ SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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sled Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6171
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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what a bunch of NERDS
_________________ drive your split. |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Subhatch Hinge Washers and Pin Sealing |
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I'm looking for a couple pictures of an original subhatch seal (hatch to roof).
I guess I forgot to snap a few pics of mine before removing, or they were too deteriorated to be useful as a reference.
I'd like to know if the two long seals go end to end of the subhatch seal channel, with the short sides butting up to them, or visa versa. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Back to top |
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jjjjack Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005 Posts: 1013 Location: Gainesville, FL
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Subhatch Hinge Washers and Pin Sealing |
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Sorry, not the best pics, but hopefully good enough. Up close, it looks like the seals at the corner were mitered and glued together.
HTH,
Jack _________________ Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
IG:j.stenner |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5146
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Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Subhatch Hinge Washers and Pin Sealing |
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Thanks Jack; that definitely looks mitered and Westfalia done. I've never seen a VW factory door seal like that. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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