TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread

vwwestyman · Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject:

Thank you for pointing out that they are running in parallel. You're right that isn't very obvious. I'll look more closely at this again. Otherwise, I think I'll just replace the hose at the factory port, and add some additional anti-chafing protection.

I think it will be worth buying a heater control to experiment with in cutting flow off. Surely there has to be a way to make it work without too much drama.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:30 pm Post subject:

Woo hoo! The rebuild transmission is on the way and should show up on Friday!

I've got some work to do! Shocked

I have been working on the radiator holder/engine scoop/shield.

Before I post the pics, I have to say compared to the handiwork I've seen around here, mine don't seem too pretty. But I was working with an angle grinder and a welder, and I usually have to just build things in place and go from there, testing and adjusting things as I go.

The objective with this project was that the air scoop itself would grab air from below, and force it up and through the radiator. The scoop itself needs to be beefy enough to protect the radiator from being hit by rocks and other stuff that might be kicked up.

Additionally, I want to eventually reinstall the air conditioning unit I pulled years ago, now that I have power and a working compressor to utilize. This necessitated placing the radiator toward the back of the frame rails, to provide room for the condenser.

Finally, I wanted to use my current radiator, hoping I won't have to fork out for another one. But just in case, I didn't want to cut it up or modify it and make it unsaleable.

Meeting these goals required a couple of design changes along the way. Most notably, the front radiator outlet was directly under a frame rail so it had to be flipped over and face down. This necessitated building a recess in the bottom of the skid plate for the hoses, and boxing it in to protect the hoses. Doing it this way (vs lowering the whole scoop) makes the area hanging down be less overall.

Because I might change the radiator in the future, and to make things more serviceable, I built it in a "modular" fashion. The "legs" bolt to the frame, and then the radiator holder bolts to that, and the scoop bolts to the bottom.

If I need to get a bigger radiator, I can still use the legs and scoop bottom and just modify the radiator holder itself.

I gotta let the paint dry on the three captive nuts I welded to the frame before I can bolt it up, but here are a few pics of it on the floor.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject:

_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Stuartzickefoose · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject:

SWEET!

_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

vwwestyman · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject:

Ok, as I promised I would do when the transmission came back, I spent some time today messing with the flywheels, and clutch kits. Here are some things I found. I suppose most of this could have been figured out before the transmission got here, but oh well.

Long story short: The flywheels with clutch kits do not seem to be easily interchangeable to work with the Mexican bellhousing. If someone was wanting to do the conversion with the Mexcian bellhousing, it seems that they would also need to get both the input shaft as well as the flywheel along with the bellhousing. Continue on for why.

The TDI flywheel's diameter is larger than the Mexican flywheel's diameter. It is large enough that it interferes by at least a couple MM with the mounting surface/tab/whatever that holds the bearing for the bus' starter shaft. This mounting surface/tab also interferes with the starter's ability to fully extend the gear if the adapter is not installed.

Because the TDI starter is self-supported, that mounting surface/tab is not necessary with it, and could be cut or ground away completely.

However there are other issues.

First, with the diameter difference, I don't think the starter gear would engage with the TDI's flywheel correctly. The starter would need to be moved outward from the center of the flywheel by a few mm.

Second, mounted to the motor, the outer edge of the ring gear of the TDI flywheel is approximately 45 mm from the block. Mounted to the motor, the Mexican flywheel's ring gear is approximately 63 mm. The adapter plate is 9.5mm thick, so removing it doesn't make up the difference.

The TDI's input shaft is a larger diameter, but the diameter of the bus disc and TDI disc are the same, so the bus disc could be used with the TDI flywheel and pressure plate.

There is zero chance of bolting the TDI pressure plate to the bus flywheel or vice versa.

One question I had was combining the pressure plate with the bus throw out bearing. The opening on the TDI pressure plate is approximately 46 mm, while the opening on the bus pressure plate is 43. The springs of the TDI plate do contact the throwout bearing but in a slightly different place.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject:

My parents took my foster son for the weekend, so I was able to work on the Bus largely uninterrupted for a good chunk of time.

I could have thrown the motor in earlier, but I spent time trying to get some of the rust and scale off the firewall above the transmission cleaned up and painted. It is ugly but hopefully it'll at least slow down progression of rust.

I installed some sound-deadening stuff. For the firewall area above the transmission, I used a couple layers of foil-faced 1/4 styrofoam. I've seen other products that could be more effective in blocking sound, but they all seem to be able to hold water against the metal too easily. The styrofoam won't hold any water at all. In the engine compartment, I used an under hood product from Boom Mat. It is basically about an inch of foam with a thick foil facing.

I got the radiator fan all set up and wired up in the new location, and final-fitted (hopefully!!) the radiator support and scoop.

I did get the engine mounted up tonight before going to bed. So I'm getting closer. Now I just have to fill the transmission and hook the rest of it all up!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:47 am Post subject:

It runs!

Overall, so far, I'm happy with the gearing. Took it on a short camping trip this past weekend to give it a chance to stretch its legs and so far so good with the gearing.

Before, I was running a stock transmission with tall tires. Now I'm running the gearing mentioned on page 9 of this thread.

First and second gear's usefulness are much improved with the taller R and P. The jump from second to third is not really noticeable, so it must be good. Smile

The jump from third to fourth is a little bigger than I was anticipating however it is OK. If I run third just a little longer (say to 3400 or 3500 RPMs) then it is fine. IIRC, I'm around 2600-2700 RPMs around 65 MPH.

The radiator/cooling is much improved, though not quite there yet. Running down the highway at 65-70ish and 75ish ambient, I had temps of about 212-215. I'll try to take some pics soon and see if any of you have feedback on how I could improve the situation. At least for now, it is pretty much driveable, so it isn't super urgent but rather something I do need to address.

Here is my foster son and his friend throwing rocks into the lake we camped by this weekend. This is why I spent so much time and money on this darn project!

(I discovered an old laundry basket is a great way to haul sticks/kindling.)
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Stuartzickefoose · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:03 am Post subject:

so, out of curiosity, what type of mileage are you getting with the 1.9tdi motor? i am hoping to push my bus into the 40's with a tdi swap, and would love to hear what your getting...
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:27 am Post subject:

archemitis · Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:20 am Post subject:

I dont think anywhere near 40mpg is realistic unless you are talking about 55 mph. I have a 2000 1.9tdi engine, with the tallest 4th you can get in an 091 tranny in a 74 westfalia, and I average 25 or so mpg at 65-70 mph. It really doesnt get any worse even at 75-80 mph. I have hit 30 for extended periods of time but i was driving much slower to get that mpg. This is over 11k miles I have ran with my conversion. 70 mph is 3k RPMs with my setup.

After running my radiator in the rear for one season, then in the front for another, with pretty good results with both.... I now have one in the rear duct area, and one under the bus ran in series. Need some highway miles in the Texas heat to test it out, but Im pretty sure its gonna be a good setup.
Hope yours works out well, the aussies swear by it.

vwwestyman · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:42 am Post subject:

I need to improve my cooling some.

With the radiator underneath, the temps are more in control than when I had it in the engine compartment. I'm not totally certain how much of the change is due to the regearing of the transmission (much lower RPMs at highway speeds) and how much is due to the new placement/design.

Anyway, it is better, I think. Before at highway speeds, I would have to have the heaters on full blast and keep the speeds/RPMs (60-65ish MAX and 3,000) down to keep it under 220ish.

Now, I can drive faster and don't need the heaters to keep the temps in that same range. Even when I was fully loaded (two adults, two teenagers, a great dane and a 6 year old with camping gear for all of us plus pulling a trailer with a canoe, kayak, and fire wood).

So we're headed in the right direction. But not there yet.

Here is the current setup:

This is the original radiator, so it is a little small. I'm just curious if any of you have any great ideas that would help lower the temps more? Especially ideas of things to refine to be able to keep radiator! (I'd rather not have to buy another one if I don't need to!)

Thanks
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

soissisc · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:31 am Post subject:

An idea to consider - and no I do not have a belly mounted radiator and I am not an expert, but... maybe seal off between the input side of the radiator and the exhaust side of the radiator. Block the output side from being affected by the incoming air. It looks like incoming air is forced to both sides of the radiator right now? I would think you would want to make the path of least resistance for the air to be through the fins of the radiator.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

vwwestyman · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:40 am Post subject:

Sloride · Samba Member Joined: February 09, 2002 Posts: 926

I'd echo boxing the rad in better to force the air down through it. Not sure if you are running an oil cooler but while not directly related to water temps it helped with my swap.

Craig
_________________
1972 Westfalia - 1.8 VW in-line h2o conversion
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=

1964 Ruby Red Beetle

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705757&highlight=ruby+red

Bendejo · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject:

My scoop ends at the forward edge of the rad. Force the air up between the frame rails( I boxed the area in with pool noodles) and out through the bottom.

You may have an airflow issue at higher speeds as your scoop also creates a low pressure area that is fighting the flow through thr rad.

My .02

Good luck.

tristessa · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject:

Echoing Bendejo and Sloride, try boxing in the radiator more, ditch the present scoop (at least temporarily) and try to force the air downward through the radiator fins. I think you're working against the natural airflow direction with your scoop as it is now, especially since the above-radiator space isn't blocked.

vwwestyman · Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject:

tristessa · Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject:


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TDI into '78 Bus Build Thread
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