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life long VW
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 140
Location: NOR CAL
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 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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marked for future reference. Thanks for the comparison.
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66 21 wndo deluxe microbus
59 bug
63 kombi w/ SO-22 westy
66 squareback
59 logoed standard bus Orangevale Baptist Church
58 PG/SG sunroof /safari standard
94 golf
2013 Bettle TDI (cheater) |
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2358
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| OB Bus wrote: |
| pyrO's master cylinder might have been for a 68-70? I'd have to crawl under both buses to compare. |
yep, early bay. |
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perello
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 830
Location: where social security comes for free
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:22 am Post subject: |
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in the same boat.
just bought a '67 bus ATE MC
really, I wont put my safety on cheap labor having an original german part at $150 |
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2358
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| perello wrote: |
in the same boat.
just bought a '67 bus ATE MC
really, I wont put my safety on cheap labor having an original german part at $150 |
where did you find it for $150? |
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ezcamper
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2001
Posts: 897
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I found them for 124 Euro but the shipping was really expensive. Search by the UPC # on google.
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OB Bus
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003
Posts: 2541
Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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EIS has the Chinese master cylinders for $50 and the reservoirs for about $28. Ordered them yesterday and they were on the porch today.
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69 Westfalia and 2002 Eurovan Camper. |
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Scorcho
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2012
Posts: 386
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm probably going to order a Chinese one after this, thanks! This would work for a 63 I am going to convert to dual master cylinder right? |
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dirtylawnchair
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 1234
Location: Bradenton FL
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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Has anyone switched from an ATE dual circuit with spacer to a 67 bus master cylinder? How do they compare?
I am looking to improve the brakes on my 63 and am wondering if the 67 type would work "better" than the current dual ATE that is in the bus. Drums freshly turned on all 4 corners, new brake shoes, fresh fluid and push rod properly adjusted. Stock bus front, 67 beetle rear (straight axled) and it takes a good bit of leg to stop, a lot of leg to get them to lock up.
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Paulie
63 Standard OG paint
Last edited by dirtylawnchair on Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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Keep adjusting the shoes till they wear into the drums. Pretty sure rear type 1 drums have a lot less shoe to drum surface area...
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dirtylawnchair
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 1234
Location: Bradenton FL
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:52 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Keep adjusting the shoes till they wear into the drums. Pretty sure rear type 1 drums have a lot less shoe to drum surface area... |
I've been driving it for years like this and recently redid the entire brake system because they did not feel real "strong" (if that makes sense). I guess its time to use the search button about the best wide5 disc conversion for a type2.
So, the answer to my original question is; the 67 style master cylinder will be no better?
My daily is a Golf R....so my brakes are probably fine in the bus. I just get used to the amazing stopping power of the R..
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Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:30 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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what dual circuit master do you have now? they have different bore diameters which can affect pedal feel.
also, while new shoes and freshly turned drums are a good thing, you are using a small portion of your shoes braking capability when you dont have the shoes arc'd to the drums. Find someone who can arc your shoes and I bet you will see a drastic improvement.
if you go discs, just get 944 rotors and wilwood calipers or wageswest's bustang kit if you want wide 5.
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dirtylawnchair
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 1234
Location: Bradenton FL
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:44 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| sled wrote: |
what dual circuit master do you have now? they have different bore diameters which can affect pedal feel.
also, while new shoes and freshly turned drums are a good thing, you are using a small portion of your shoes braking capability when you dont have the shoes arc'd to the drums. Find someone who can arc your shoes and I bet you will see a drastic improvement.
if you go discs, just get 944 rotors and wilwood calipers or wageswest's bustang kit if you want wide 5. |
I am running at 71-79 bay bus ATE brand master with aluminum spacer.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24-211-611-021-AAGR
I tryed to ark them myself ... maybe I should find someone who knows how to get it done properly.
Bustangs look great for stock wheels.
And they should work with my SA Sprints.
"This Bustang disk brake kit will fit under most any aftermarket aluminum or steel 15+ inch wheels."
In the Babystang thread, people are commenting on how the 67 style master requires less leg. I may get one to try...cant make it worse.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=537739&start=60
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Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| dirtylawnchair wrote: |
I tryed to ark them myself ... maybe I should find someone who knows how to get it done properly. |
They will arc themselves to each drum if you drive it and over the next few weeks adjust the brake adjusters two or three times.
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dirtylawnchair
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 1234
Location: Bradenton FL
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:09 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| dirtylawnchair wrote: |
I tryed to ark them myself ... maybe I should find someone who knows how to get it done properly. |
They will arc themselves to each drum if you drive it and over the next few weeks adjust the brake adjusters two or three times. |
Its been several months since the redo. Its mainly a weekend driver but I have a few good cruises since then.
I'll get it up on the lift, tear it down and see if I see anything obvious. Maybe another set of eyes too.
My original question for this thread was; Is the 67 style dual circuit master cylinder a "better" master cylinder over the 71-79 ATE dual circuit with adapter on a bus with drums? My assumption is yes, but wanted to have an Sambaspert shed some light as to why or why not.
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Paulie
63 Standard OG paint |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:18 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| dirtylawnchair wrote: |
My original question for this thread was; Is the 67 style dual circuit master cylinder a "better" master cylinder over the 71-79 ATE dual circuit with adapter on a bus with drums? My assumption is yes, but wanted to have an Sambaspert shed some light as to why or why not. |
Have been told it is somewhere around 7 to 15% easier foot pressure to put same pressure on the shoes. So not a huge change. Having the shoes adjusted and worn into the drums will make a lot more difference in stopping power. Can lock the brakes up on our 1960 panel walk thru camper conversion with the 1971-79 MC.
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ozinbc
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:08 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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apologies for re-visiting an old thread- but I wonder what the stop screw in the original master does , and what issues could occur if it is missing? Is it critical for the "dual" function to be effective?
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mdege
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018
Posts: 940
Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| Transporter wrote: |
| Pyro, that's not a 67 bus master cylinder. The only ones I've seen as a 67 bus 'specialist' is the type pictured at the beginning of this thread. The brake lines all enter at the same planar angle which is parallel to the road. And the cylinder bore is 22. |
I now wonder how would have it worked?!? As a "gift" I was just about to install it when I realized it was too damn long to fit! 
That's why you see the hacked in bug master with the cheesy caps on it now. Yes, I still have to "fix" that but it is definitely braking a lot easyer with it than with the phatchick booster type master it had before!  |
That's physics at work for you. You have a smaller diameter piston. It will need more travel to move the same volume as the 22mm piston, but it builds higher pressure with the same force on the pedal.
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| mdege wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| Transporter wrote: |
| Pyro, that's not a 67 bus master cylinder. The only ones I've seen as a 67 bus 'specialist' is the type pictured at the beginning of this thread. The brake lines all enter at the same planar angle which is parallel to the road. And the cylinder bore is 22. |
I now wonder how would have it worked?!? As a "gift" I was just about to install it when I realized it was too damn long to fit!
That's why you see the hacked in bug master with the cheesy caps on it now. Yes, I still have to "fix" that but it is definitely braking a lot easyer with it than with the phatchick booster type master it had before! |
That's physics at work for you. You have a smaller diameter piston. It will need more travel to move the same volume as the 22mm piston, but it builds higher pressure with the same force on the pedal. |
Very old post there ^^^! That issue was rectified quite some time ago. 
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:42 am Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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| ozinbc wrote: |
| apologies for re-visiting an old thread- but I wonder what the stop screw in the original master does , and what issues could occur if it is missing? Is it critical for the "dual" function to be effective? |
Keeps the piston farthest away from the pedal push rod from sliding too far toward the push rod.
From 1968-70 bus MC:
Without bolt you have a hole, that fluid likes to spray out of. Plus the piston seals end up in the wrong place possibly causing blockage of passages from fluid flow needed.
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ozinbc
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Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 201
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: 67 Dual Circuit Master Cylinder Comparison with pictures |
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I try not to be a pedant- but the question relates to the fact that the screw (and the hole) is missing in the repro versions of the 67 dual master. Should those installing the repro versions be worried that the function of the cylinder is somehow compromised when a circuit fails?
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