Quick help please??? 74 bug quit - solved

drgerry · Last edited by drgerry on Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

History:
-Getting ready for Bugapalooza, took it to the car wash
-washed off the car and motor (low pressure, no water on dist, etc.)
-cranked and ran great for 2-3 miles home
-coming in the driveway, it began to sputter and misfire
--OK, I thought, some water did get into the dist.
-pulled dist cap - NO Moisture - sprayed Elec Cleaner into it just to make sure
-Let it sit for 2-3 hours as I vacuumed and cleaned the car
-went to leave and it cranked right up

BUT HERE'S THE ISSUE: with any throttle at all it would kick and sputter, like it was either not getting fuel or it was misfiring!!!????
-My glass fuel filter is full, and at idle it looked like fuel was flowing fine

I don't know where to start! Do I remove and try to clean out the carb (stock carb)? Do I look for some sort of elect issue?

I thought maybe the vacuum advance wasn't working since it idled OK, but misfired with throttle. I noticed that the vacuum advance doesn't move when I suck on the hose, is it supposed to move some? or only when the dist is turning?

I put new vacuum caps over the EGR ports on the carb (stock carb) thinking they may be leaking causing a vacuum leak and not advancing the dist, and now it won't stay running at idle (maybe I flooded it).

Kinda sounds like a clogged carb, doesn't it?

Please help with any suggestions, really wanted to go this year (was supposed to be up there NOW!)

Cusser · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject:

Guessing water on some spark wires is causing spark to jump, might be fine once it fully dries off.
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drgerry · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:35 pm Post subject:

Nope
Checked those
All dry

VW Habit · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject:

Vapor lock? Take the gas cap off and try to start it.

drgerry · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:31 pm Post subject:

tries to crank, but won't now - kicks and sputters
pulled gas cap off, still won't crank
pulled top off carb, sprayed everything with carb cleaner - no help
pulled plugs, they were black like not firing, cleaned them reinstalled - no help

plugs being black = not firing??? maybe coil went back all of a sudden?????

sb001

drgerry · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject:

giving up for the night . . . . tried an old coil I had laying around. No help either.

It actually seems like it's out of time. But, that's impossible (or is it?). The distributor is securely tightened, TDC points to #1 cyl. Besides, how could it get out of time all of a sudden when it was running so good????

Got to be a firing issue, something got wet? But why would it wait 3 miles or so before it started acting up???? Points are fairly new, less than a year (and I only drive it about 20 miles a month.) Plugs, new too.

When coils go bad, will they cause sputtering like this? I did notice that the coil seems to be real hot. I have been trying to crank it a lot lately.

It seems to be worse, now it won't even idle.

It's good to go to bed defeated . . . . I'd hate to think too highly of myself

so much for Bugapalooza . . . . .

drgerry · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject:

sb001:

SVDA? SVA? I dunno??? All I know it's what came on it OEM. 74 Standard Beetle.

No, I actually forgot to re-connect the vacuum line and it still didn't crank.

I just noticed that nothing inside the distributor moves when I put vacuum on the hose. It does hold vacuum, so I'm assuming the diaphragm is good. Is something supposed to move in there?

How can it go from running so good to not even cranking? Coil?????? But, it's not more than a couple years old itself.

mouser98 · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:21 am Post subject:

If you pull off the vac can, and put vac to it, there is a lever or a slide that comes out of it and attaches to the insides of the dizzy that should be sliding in with vac, and then back out when no vac. if it is not sliding then you are not getting any advance, and that is likely your problem.

drgerry

Thanks to Glenn, yes . . . my dist was froze up. I had to use a screw driver and WD40 to get it loose.

Now, how do I get this thing apart to clean and grease it??? Can it be done DIY?? Special tools?

(did I screw up using WD40 in there?)

drgerry

OK, so I got the dist adv to free up with WD40, and using a paper towel and small screwdriver, cleaned up all the excess rusty looking lubricant, continually working it back and forth until no more was evident. Then used some high temp grease (just a dab) and continued to work it back and forth. Then cleaned up any excess grease.

Now it cranks right up, but it doesn't run good. I set points at TDC to 0.016 gap.

When I checked timing I noticed the timing mark was jumping back and forth. What causes this?

drgerry · Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:50 am Post subject:

After dicking with it all morning, I still can't get it to run right . . . When I first got it to run, took it down the road and it did pretty good. But, the further I went the worse it got.

Came back and cleaned the points with Elect Cleaner, thinking some grease got on them, but no help.

The points look good, I cleaned the spark plugs last night. Rotor and cap have usual wear.

Now, the dist hold down bracket bolt broke!!!! It just isn't meant for me to go to Chattanooga this year!!!!!

Well, we're going anyway, in a Toyota. But I at least can talk to someone and buy parts!

drgerry · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:35 am Post subject:

OK, I'm stumped!!!

Talked around at the show, got advise that it was probably a bad rotor/cap (must have gotten burnt when the dist vac advance froze up). So, bought new cap/rotor . . . . . yep, didn't help.

I've cleaned plugs, cleaned points, reset points to .016 TDC, took the carb top off and sprayed everything with carb cleaner, pulled out the large carb adj screw and sprayed cleaner in there.

What I have noticed is that my timing light gives me sporadic firing. #1 isn't firing all the time. Seems to me that it has to be an electrical issue, the coil should be creating juice, and the dist should be sending it to the plugs every time, right? Even if the carb isn't adjusted right, or it's out of time a little.

What I don't understand is that it ran PERFECT prior to washing off the motor. But, it also ran PERFECT for 2-3 miles to get back home. Then I found the dist vac adv rusted firm. One would think that fixing that would fix the problem.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE WD40 / AND WHITE LITHIUM GREASE I USED TO FREE UP THE VAC ADV IS DOING SOMETHING TO THE POINTS / CAP / ROTOR CONTACTS? I have sprayed electrical cleaner all inside to try to get rid of it, but may still be some in there??????

[email protected]

houseofboyd · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:58 am Post subject:

Do you have an extra set of plug wires to try, just to eliminate them as a contributing factor..... Smile

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drgerry · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:15 am Post subject:

ptjjb -
thank you for your correction, yes I did set it at widest gap. I remember turn the dist to get the points at the highest part of the lobe.

houseofboyd -
no, no extra wires around -

I've been researching and it appears that a bad condenser will cause misfiring. I found a local NAPA store that actually has points and condenser in stock, I'm headed to get them now.

It may be that with all my dicking around I may have left the key switch on and caused the condenser to go bad. I do remember the coil getting real hot one time. Thought it may have been me working the starter too much trying to crank it.

drgerry · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: AND THE ANSWER IS . . . . . . .

AND THE ANSWER IS . . . . . . . . . .

CONDENSER!! TA-DAAAA!

Found a local NAPA that had points and condenser. Replaced them both, but I really think it was the condenser. The points just didn't look bad. They had a small black dot in the middle, but that was it.

Now it purrs like a kitten. And, after all that - it seems to run better with the vacuum advance freed up. I'm sure it was binding before which may have been the cause of the intermittent hesitation I had (especially when cold) with throttle.

My appreciations to all who's shoulders I cried on

drgerry · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject:

PS

bought an extra set, just in case . . . . . . .

houseofboyd · Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject:

_________________
Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501

My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943

Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com

1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle


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