Torsion springs on Rail

[Bobalos]

Hey folks,

I was pulling the motor out of my rail & noticed that the rear end seems to be sagging. Im not 100% sure, but it looks like there is less space between the bump stop & the trailing arm.

Have you guys seen a torsion spring lose its spring?

Nothing special about this setup, just a VW.

[superpro56]

Over time I think torsions can become fatigued from constantly cycling. You may be able to get with just re-indexing them to increase pre-load to get the stance back where you think it should be. Or you could find some new springs, I think I would try to re-index first though.

[sloboatnova]

I recently replaced mine with 28mm bars. I pur too much preload on them and stripped the splines in the center section. Don't go overboard.
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[Multi69s]

Yes torsion bars and front leaves do lose their holding power after 40 years of abuse. so for free try reindexing them. If you were running the long torsion bar setup, I would tell you to look for Squareback bars, they are just a couple of mm thicker then the type 1. However, I would stay away from the 28s for your rail. Unless you are hitting whoops at 50 MPH.
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69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Vanapplebomb]

Because you have a Bay Window suspension, the torsion bars may actually take very little preload to adequately support your ride. You really need it on the ground to be able to tell where you are sitting. Even so, late bus bars are pretty darn heavy duty. They were made for a vehicle rated for a full ton of cargo!

Before you throw out the torsion bars and buy a mystery set of used Bay Window Bus torsion bars, try re-indexing them. Torsion "bars" more than most other torsion springs do sack out a bit over time. It is pretty normal. As they are That is why they have the neat spline system for adjusting them when things sag. That said, the Bay Window Bus bars are stiff enough that any loss in stiffness over time is probably in your favor.

As far as I know, nobody makes aftermarket Bay Window Bus sized torsion bars, so you don't have squat for options to change your ride unless you do some serious fabrication to retrofit something else. What you see is what you get. Best you can do is adjust it the best you can and live with it. Sorry, but that is the way it goes.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Bobalos]

thanks guys. I tried to reply last night, but my computer decided it was time for an update & shut down in the middle of typing.

In any case. I just rebuilt the rear shocks & got some new 2.0's for the front, so maybe I will take it up one fine spline & see if that does not get it. From what VAB said, it does not sound like I will have a whole heck of a lot of choice anyway. I will pull them out & check the spline counts & length, so I know exactly what I have to work with.

I was thinking about getting some 3x3's, so maybe thats a good excuse to get rid of the torsions altogether & get some coil overs. although, Im not sure I want to put $2000+ into this thing.

thanks again folks.
Bob

[Multi69s]

I didn't catch that you had a bus rear suspension. However, if you do throw on some 3 x 3s, it should effectively soften up you spring rate due to the added leverage. I am unfamiliar with the dimensions of the bay window trailing arm, so I would take some measurements and compare them to a stock Type 1 arm, then go from there. You shouldn't have to spend the $$s to go to coil overs to get good travel and ride. Do you or anyone know what the diameter of your torsion bars are? This would be a good starting point in helping you to reconfigure your setup.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[Vanapplebomb]

Bay Window Bus trailing arms are about as long as 3 inch longer bug arms...not that big arms fit bus torsion housings. Totaly different. The only way to get longer Bay Window arms is to fabricate your own. Nobody makes aftermarket arms for them. No arms, no torsion bars. What you see is what you get unless you have the skills to fab your own suspension parts. Not trying to be a downer, but it is what it is.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[dustymojave]

Van is right. Since your car has Bus rear suspension including the torsion housing. Anything you do will have to be custom work as there are NO aftermarket parts to fit. Avery's might make some custom arms for it on special order.

Torsion bars are like any other spring. If you work them hard or get them hot, they will lose some strength and sag. Doesn't matter if you're talking torsion bars, coil springs, or leaf springs.
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