Creative Engineering Rack and Pinion ?

[57palm]

that what I'm talking about best way to eliminate bump steer way to be creative.

RM

[gumbajv]

Trying to kick start an old thread. What year Rabbit rack & pinion did you use. Any other alternatives?

[demon1018]

I put a rack in mine from a 1991 chevy cavalier. it is center load so you can have longer tie rods. hell i even did the hydraulic ride height thing but i didnt "scrap the idea", it works perfect. i had to make a plate on my rack to raise the tie rods up to make them level at ride height to further help with the bump stop issue but mine is really low. my spindles are now 5" drop and i can put the bumper on the ground. ive been driving the crap out of it for about 2 months now. a couple of trips across the state ,6 hours of driving each those 2 days. it works great. i have zero play in the steering at all. i used a vanagon bevel box as well. when i built the beam i put about 8 degrees caster in it. thats what makes it turn back strait after a turn and just helps it go down the road strait . if i were to do it again i would add more, wish it was adjustable, . but as far as the rack goes , it works excellent. they even have a power rack for a cavaleir and you can use an electric porer steering pump to have power steering if you want but it turns quite easy anyway .

[gumbajv]

For the guys who used a 911 steering rack, what did you use for tie rods?

[gumbajv]

Finally got the 911 steering rack conversion done. I was able to delete the U joint at the steering box, what a pain. Will do a write up on my bus page. The turbo tie rods for the '65-'68 911 will work.

[67dubcab]

Looks clean Harold, as expected!
Look forward to more info on your d.c. homepage. I suppose we will have to wait till you build your turbo engine to get a road report.
Stephen
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Porsche powered mid-engine double cab build
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[peaceful warrior]

So, has anyone used this new system by CE?
http://www.creative-engineering.com/index.php?opti...;Itemid=26
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"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
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66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
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Brian

[srfndoc]

[adrian1963]

Hi,

I think the original question on here was has anyone fitted one of these Creative Engineering racks. Can't believe this thread started 7 years ago and nobody has answered the original question! Very good thread though and very useful to me in deciding what to do regarding steering upgrade so thanks to everyone. I bought the CE rack kit yesterday and fitted it today.

Why did I choose the CE kit. Yes its expensive, but its all brand new with the majority of the components manufactured specially for CE (including the rack itself and the bevel box, new steering column etc). Some of the full rack systems people have done do look smart but for me putting something on the bus that I carry my family around in meant i wanted a well made bit of kit. The CE kit is also pretty much a bolt on system (bit of cutting required to edge of one chassis flange, plus drilling holes). The kit is very solid indeed. Clearly very well made when you first see it. Its also got great ground clearance (not that I need it running stock height) which is also good to have. For me, the peace of mind in having a solid purpose built kit was worth the money compared to the nagging doubt at the back of my mind whilst travelling at 70 mph (stroked 2200cc engine) down a motorway that some component or weld I had made was not quite right. This thing is keeping the bus and my kids on the road after all. Also I intend to keep this bus for a long time and that helps to justify the cost too. I really liked the design. All of the separate parts are mounted on one steel plate which effectively buids up to be one item that mounts onto the chassis in so many places its solid as a rock

So, my steering box was shot and very worn. 4 to 6 inches of free movement at the steering wheel. Not good.

Fitting the CE kit was straight forward, though I had to cut and re-weld the outer steering column cover mount plate due to the fact the floor in my bus was higher than it should be by half inch. Other than that its a piece of cake.

Yes, you lose the horn function in the centre of the steering wheel (although the parts remain same visually) because the new inner steering column has no hole bored into it. The column goes straight to a UJ under the floor anyway so it could not take the horn wire anyway even if the column was bored as it would get tangled. I just put a period style push button on the dash. looks fine. The inside of the bus looks identical to before, just the horn doesnt work.

My bus used to wander all over, constant correction, with nervous times passing vehicles at anything over 50mph. Impossile to keep in a straight line. Country lanes were equally worrying. Been on an hour long drive this afternoon and the new kit transforms the steering. There is no free play in the steering wheel, with immediate movement of front wheels from any movement on the steering wheel. 70+ mph is no problem any more. It was windy here too today so the bus was getting blown around but none of the slackness I had before. It just feels completely solid (for a box on wheels).

Would I buy this kit again? Yes, without a question, and I would recommend it to anyone with a shot steering box.

People have pointed out it is just replacing the steering box with half a rack. I understand this point, but the thing is so well engineered that it really is up to the job. I have a split pickup too with a very good steering box on it and this CE kit is infinitely better than that. A rack is always going to be better than a box. Realistically, if all your track rod ends are in good nick they will have NO loose play in them anyway. The one weak part remaining is the idler pin mounted in the beam which the full rack systems shown on here remove. As long as this pin is a good tight fit with no slack in it there really should be no more slackness in the CE system than the full racks people have done.

Hope this helps, and if you want to ask anything let me know because its all still fresh in my mind!

I am in England so there may be a delay due to time zones.
Cheers
Ade

[KombiMadness]

Good write up and description. Nothing beats actual experience from someone who has done it.
Conjecture is just well, conjecture.....

Post up a follow up report after a few more hundred miles.
_________________
My brother & I on the roof of Dad's Splitty circa 1967 - I'm the half pint with the skinny legs!

[stevecul8er]

I totally agree with Adrian1963. We've been rebuilding my sons 66 Bus for the last 8 years and got it running on the road and can verify the driveability is a big change. Had a rebuilt steering box prior and I drove it once and was scared sh**less. I can just about drive one handed now,smooth.
The horn issue is a little problem but if you have a European electrical type signal system CE does sell an turn indicator with a horn feature. Also seen someone in the Europe side someone use to sell a remote system installed so you can use your existing horn button. It was an RF transmitter system like your alarm system, too bad he don't sell them anymore althought his website shows how to do it.

[adrian1963]

Hi,

Yes, I will post an update after having driven a few hundred miles and everything settled in.

One thing has arisen though which I am sure must have been intended, but I have never seen it referred to in any CE literature myself.

My steering wheel was not quite aligned correctly which after 50 miles or so was bugging me. This can be adjusted via the track rod end supplied with the rack that fastens to the stock idler on the front beam. The result however was that I had more turn at full lock one way compared to the other, which bothered me. I had obviously not centred the rack to uj on the splines properly so I thought - take off the rack from the frame it fits into and move it round a few splines to reconnect the uj. End result perfectly central steering with equal lock each way. Good result...... However this revealed a very positive feature. The rack is held on by 4 bolts to the bespoke 'frame' that comes with it. The end of the rack slots into a circular hole in the 'frame' (you will see what I mean from the pics on the CE website). On the side of the rack is a lump (gearing) that protrudes into another hole on the frame opposite the uj mounting splines. I undid all four bolts holding rack to frame. Undid the bolt holding the rack to UJ. It really does look like the rack will them be able to be drawn off the uj and lifted out easily. Impossible. The tolerances of rack to the holes it fits into on the frame are simply not big enough to allow removal of the rack even with all these bolts undone. I had to remove the upper bolt on the rack uj (uj to bevel box) to push it beyond its normal position at which point you can just manage to get enough room to pull the rack out of its lower uj fitting. once off the uj, you can just manage to withdraw the rack from the holes it fits into. (hope that makes sense!!) So what? well you could lose all the fixings on the rack and it would still not fall off. Steering would be very loose but it would still all be in one piece. You could never loose your steering with this system unless the final track rod end came off the stock steering idler attached to the beam. This results from the fact that all components are mounted on the same bespoke frame provided by CE (rack bevel box, steering column all become one fixed unit) before it is fitted to the bus. The entire system is then bolted to the chassis using the original steering box mounting position (5 x m12 bolts) plus another 5 m8 bolts to the opposite main chassis leg and cross members in between. You need to have a hell of a lot of bolts removed to be able to get any individual part off. Very safe indeed.

Further update to follow after a few hundred miles.

Cheers
Adrian

[adrian1963]

Hi,

So I fitted this Creative Engineering rack a couple of weeks ago (as described in previous 2 posts) and have now done around 400 miles in her. The results are good and in summary I would do it again without question. A little more detail is provided below regarding the key areas of problems I had with the old steering box fitted:

1) general wavering around the road especially at speed. This was a nightmare before. The free play I had was around 4" at the steering wheel with the old steering box. This free play is almost totally eliminated. The wavering around has almost totally gone even at 70mph. The other joints remaining in the steering linkages are all as standard but are all pretty new, including idler arm bushes. Driving with one hand on the wheel is safe and easy. It's completely different to drive. Improvement in wavering around 90%+.

2) Bump Steer. Again, this was shocking before. Hitting a bump would drag the road wheels left or right to take up the free play in the old steering box. Result was sudden change in direction that I then had to correct by continuous movement of the steering wheel to go from one side of the slack 'band' to the other to keep her straight. It was not a good feeling. I am running stock height front beam with stock steering geometry. The result from the new rack is a major improvement which I guess is simply from having lost the free play. Improvement in bump steer around 85%.

3) Brake steer. I am running original drums all round but with a remote servo assist. Its almost impossible to get the drums 100% equally balanced with each other and the result before was that when braking one set of shoes would inevitably bite a fraction before the opposite side. The result was a lurching to one or other side as the free play in the steering box was taken up before the steering wheel moved at all. The result from fitting the rack has totally removed this issue, even though I did not adjust the brakes at all before/after. Clearly the 'tightness' of the new rack is preventing the free play I once had and the 'brake steer' has all but gone. Improvement in brake steer around 95%.

So the results are good and I would recommend this CE system to anyone with a worn steering box. I know its a lot of money, but the system is good and well designed. I also like the safety side of the system with everything mounted on one fabricated plate that bolts to 4 different chassis members (including the original steering box mounting) using several bolts. This removes the worry of welding for example a UJ onto a cross member that was never designed to take it, or not knowing if the cross member is corroded inside etc on a diy set up. Maybe paranoia, but I quite like the peace of mind of having everything solid as a rock when it comes to pointing the bus in the right direction, even if this comes at a hefty price. If you want to know any more please ask.
Ade.

[KombiMadness]

Thanks Adrian!

Great follow up report. Sounds like a massive improvement.
_________________
My brother & I on the roof of Dad's Splitty circa 1967 - I'm the half pint with the skinny legs!

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Looks like the cost for us Americans is about the same as a quality front disc brake setup.
I would love to do this.
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"Saying what we think gives us a wider conversational range than saying what we know."
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(T)exas (C)oalition (B)uses
(H)eidenhammer (B)ully (B)oyz

--1966 De Luxe Camper

[DonKombi]

Sign me up for a kit. Any US distributors?

[B RY]

CAN ANYONE POINT ME IN THE DIRECTION OF A RACK AND PINION SYSTEM FOR A TYPE 2 SPLIT WINDOW. I SEE A HECK OF A LOT OF UNHELPFUL POST WITH NO REAL DIRECTION>

[Busstom]

[panel]

Bumping this to see if there has been anyone else attempting a rack conversion ?
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My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion

[charles henson]

new one from C.S.P. Germany..
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/brand-shops/steering-rack-conversion-kit-498-106-267p-32453b.html
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