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1977 CE1 Rebuild thread (barn find)
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
You stand the bus up on the back bumper, you big dummy Laughing

I am sure he has it thought out.

Can't wait for the updates! Don't make me come down there for a long weekend Twisted Evil


Ooooooh! It all makes sense now! Laughing
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at a Vanagon coolant expansion system. That's how you fill and vent it. The traditional cap is just a leftover from the original radiator structure.

M
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you going to have that TIG'ed shut? I was on the fence and welded mine up.

seeing I didn't want to spend too much time on something I wasn't sure was going to work or not, I was going to cut the neck off but didn't.....yet

wait till you get that thing going. when you hit 2nd gear, you will have a chubby...I guarantee it
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
are you going to have that TIG'ed shut? I was on the fence and welded mine up.

seeing I didn't want to spend too much time on something I wasn't sure was going to work or not, I was going to cut the neck off but didn't.....yet

wait till you get that thing going. when you hit 2nd gear, you will have a chubby...I guarantee it


I'm looking forward to it! Goal for this sprint is to get as close to start-up ready as I can make it.

M
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TomWesty
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Webwalker for the pioneering and the documentation of it. A noble goal.
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWesty wrote:
Thanks Webwalker for the pioneering and the documentation of it. A noble goal.


I've found that noble goals are often sneered at in the moment, but often have their greatest payoff in hindsight. Thanks for having foresight to see what the benefits could be.

Marshall
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent a lot of time cataloging all of the new parts that came in and I'll be sharing those pictures over the coming days.

Today I'm focusing on the heat shield installation from Rocky Mountain Westy.

Here's the shield as delivered: It is the same shield for both EJ22 and EJ25 using different mounting hardware for each. It is delivered as prettily as you could expect, and has good instructions which clearly describe what hardware goes where for each engine type.

Here's the out of box shot:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All of the standoffs heat sealed individually with their hardware. Lest you think this is the same kind of stand-off and allthread you can buy at Home Depot, let me give you a clue-by-four: It ain't. Not by a long shot.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


While a few of these replace the screws that just hold the timing cover together, most of them pass completely through the plastic cover (which itself has bushings) and screws completely into factory tapped holes in the case.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here are two installed. The product literature not only says what goes where, it also offers recommendations and cautions about installing the components, which really comes in handy when dealing with cranky Subaru bolts which haven't been removed since their manufacture. The top left one only threads into a tapped metal nut captured in the rear of the plastic, but the other taps directly into the case. The standoffs which only screw into the metal nut in the rear plastic cover are only there for stabilization. The ones which go into the case take the majority of the load. They're show here with their fender washers on the rear end threads, ready to receive the heat shield.

The heat shield is dual purpose: you don't want your exhaust melting the timing belt (its obvious job) but you also must support the muffler on the right end of the exhaust path. You don't want to couple the muffler to the body: when the engine vibrates and the body doesn't, that's a great way to put a crack in your exhaust.

Rocky Mountain Westy gives the heat shield double duty: with the addition of a powder coated steel bracket and band clamp, it can accept standard 6" round mufflers, making the whole exhaust system mechanically one piece.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With the heat shield installed, there are spinner washer nuts that thread on the ends. Now you have a robust platform to support the muffler (steel bracket, stainless steel band clamp) and a thick aluminum heat shield. The bottom also has a compound strengthening bend in it to better take the added load of the muffler. The standoffs are plated steel. There is even a thoughtfully provided hole in the middle of the shield for a socket to turn the engine over with.

I'll admit that this was the part of the conversion products ensemble that I was the most dubious about its value. Heat shield? Standoffs?

Having actually installed it, I feel like I absolutely got my money's worth for the reasons:

1. RMW has been doing Vanagon conversions for a LONG time. While the needs for a Late Bay are different than for any Vanagon, the needs for that engine installed backward in the same kind of orientation and in similar spaces are so close as to be identical. So the many thousands of hours that they have into product development and fabrication in Colorado (USA!) benefit the Late Bay converter. This isn't their first rodeo.

2. Because they have a production shop mentality, they look for ways for the same product to service two different vehicle designs equally well. There are different standoffs shipped with the 2.5 engine than there are with the 2.2, and the heat shield has accommodations for both. Maximum reuse of parts designed for multiple applications. That's production thinking.

There's only one doubt that comes to mind: How the heck do you change an alternator belt with that standoff in the way? There's an answer: a little awkwardly, but not impossible. I said that the heat shield was held by standoffs: it has enough space between the crank pulley and the front of the shield to fish out a belt and stuff a new one it, get it aligned and remounted on the Alternator pulley. Ditto the AC compressor pulley, if you choose to keep that. Cramped...but not occluding. Besides, this isn't a Type1 ACVW engine: if you throw the belt (unlikely) it just means your out your alternator until you can limp into the next town: There's no immediate shutdown/overheat situation. The belts are common autoparts store items.

There will be more pics, more parts, more discussion and review as I work through installing the RMW conversion components.

Marshall
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looking good!

it appears that you can pull the valve covers off with little issue. is this true?

in my 70, it's tight for sure and I have to drop the engine a bit. seems that the late buses have more room side to side.

I could have cut the channel off for the seal, but I didn't want to butcher too much of the bus.

seeing I do this stuff for a living, I am use to having to remove parts A,B,C and D to get to what I need to anyway so it wasn't a deal breaker for me.

it would be nice to be able to pull them off easily, but in my case I set the valves at 500 miles and again at 1,000 as per the cam grinder.

won't need to touch them for another 99K anyway Very Happy

glad to see you're on it again!
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skills,

Yes, there's plenty elbow room for the valve covers to come off, relative occlusions from the body. The coolant tubing that will be wrapping around it might make it a squeaker to get the valve cover off very easily, but that's it. The amount of elbow room in a Bay designed for a Type4 is a much wider world of elbow room than your 70 or even what I remember of my 71 Deluxe I had 20 years ago.

I'm fighting a million tiny annoyances that are nobody fault but mine, or Subaru's. Need to bolt on a bracket to a case tapping? Case tapping is a mess. Try to chase threads? Vac can just over top of it: no room to put the tap in. Next remove vac can...and so on.

Having looked at the size difference between the SOHC and the DOHC engines, I'm not sure how practical this conversion would be with DOHC since the ends take up so much more space. So color me glad I stuck with the EJ22 SOHC.

BTW, did you go with a pusher fan or a puller on your 70 Deluxe? I'm using a pair and I'm having conflicting opinions about the traditional wisdom adding a shroud. I swear on a six-pack of Bibles that I won't secure the fans with those through-ties! You warned me!

M
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Last edited by webwalker on Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, DO NOT use those push thru deals. I have been working on my new fan, but I don't know if I snapped a photo....

anyway, mine is a pusher mounted on top of the radiator getting rid of the hillbilly rig I showed you in earlier photos.

I forget what the percentage of loss is with a pusher, but I oversized my fan. it pretty much covers the entire surface except the bottom/top 1 1/2

the air it moves thru the core is amazing. it will stand duct tape (cut like ribbons) straight out.

I will dig thru my phone...almost positive I took a photo. I wouldn't sweat the shroud for our application

PM to follow....
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:


I will dig thru my phone...almost positive I took a photo. I wouldn't sweat the shroud for our application

PM to follow....


So remembering that automotive engineering is my dummy spot, let me hear more about why you think shrouding isn't a good deal for out application. I'm getting conflicting views, but the proponents have never worked on a horizontal unit with a scoop before. They're recommending a shroud because....

That's all. Because. Because that's how you do it. That I'm going to get too much re-circ of already heated air when slow or stopped and relying on fans. I grant you, my design with scoop below and pullers above makes for a tight fit, but I see plenty of space to exhaust the hot air. And having been exhausted, its headed UP, like hot air tends to do. So how would it recirculate, especially when ingress is all at the front of the scoop?

I've got just enough of a desire not to do this all over again to want to work other parts of this while I think this through with smarter peeps like you.

M
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what the hell has VolksarU been up to? Making everything come together in the middle of the most intense crunch at work that I've had in 5 years. Sorry, y'all, but feeding the family comes first.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


One if the tough spots I found myself in is with the EEC (Evaporative Emissions Control, VW M26 circa 1977) and EVAP (OBD2 style, 1996 and foreward.) Stitching two systems together that were never designed for each other is harder than it looks (to make things work right) and easier than it looks, but to must understand the theory first. Here's the rap on how I did it.

I'll give you this little preview: Only minor parts adaptation required to have a fully compliant EVAP system working. Many won't care, since they throw theirs away. Some will care. This Bud's for you.

http://volksaru-incubator.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-urge-to-purge.html
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's new everyone! Newest post is to take a tour of the engine compartment coolant system I'm using in VolksarU, a pre-production kit from Rocky Mountain Westy.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Come take the tour!

http://volksaru-incubator.blogspot.com/2015/05/coolants-full-monty.html
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

had to go stainless? dick.....

that looks like fantastic fit and finish. had my local tube guy not been an asshole I would have done that too. glad to see it's coming together!

I have had my eye on this for a while

http://www.trick-tools.com/Ben-Pearson-Exhaust-Tub...U6ma2dFBLM

thanks webwalker.....
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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webwalker Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
had to go stainless? dick.....

that looks like fantastic fit and finish. had my local tube guy not been an asshole I would have done that too. glad to see it's coming together!

I have had my eye on this for a while

http://www.trick-tools.com/Ben-Pearson-Exhaust-Tub...U6ma2dFBLM

thanks webwalker.....


I went SS because that's what there was. <<shrug>>

Did your local tube guy do CNC mandrel bending? Honestly, I can't imagine being able to do what RMW did on a manual, non-mandrel bender. The path precision for some of the tubes is incredible. Even with a CNC, there must have been a lot of ruined SS tubing in the testing and programming phase.

You know I'm not shy about using tin to replace gold when tin is all that's needed. This was a case where the price was right to "never, EVER have to think about this again." Or in the eternal wisdom about tools, "Buy Once, Cry Once."

A bender is a fantastic tool. My local independent shop just got one and did a little work for me gratis, as I take all of my work there that requires tools or time that I don't have. I'll be going there until they close, or I die. That bender is a *BEAST*.

M
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the local guy is more of a race car/fab shop but just couldn't be bothered with a "no money job" which I 100% understand. unsure if he had CNC stuff, but I know there is a exhaust bender there.

looking great as usual!
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does a Vanagon exhaust look like in a bus?

Crowded. But it all fits.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Follow the bouncing ball:
http://volksaru-incubator.blogspot.com/2015/05/exhausting-work.html
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks real nice. The exhaust has proven to be the hardest part of my swap. Trying to make it look as close to stock as possible and keeping the in cabin noise down.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sloride wrote:
Looks real nice. The exhaust has proven to be the hardest part of my swap. Trying to make it look as close to stock as possible and keeping the in cabin noise down.


The best way to keep the cab noise down is to lower the rpm, and you're only doing that by regearing the transmission. The Subaru can handle a taller final drive, or if you're just interested in cruise, choose a taller 4th gear.

The exhaust note is something you can monkey with once you get your rig on the road.

M
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