Caps, rotors, points & condensers....who knew ?

[Old n' slow]

Been running air cooled VW's for years and only now because of the internet and all the information available I find out maybe ???? half the time I haven't been using the correct numbered parts. Just now looking at my 69 Type 1 (it runs great )I find I have the wrong condenser ( it's for my year but WITH A/C ) and if I could figure out the numbers molded on the cap & rotor ( they are Bosch parts but don't match any numbers on the charts) probably the wrong parts also.

Does it really matter in most cases, ? It's amazing how many variations of the same looking part there are through the years.
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Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;

1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel .

[pwmcguire]

I've been told that condensers are all the same , just different lengths of wire and styles of connector body

[Old n' slow]

[sb001]

Yep. I've been told there was a certain condenser, points and rotor for my autostick... why?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1227731
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[Old n' slow]

[Dwayne1m]

Actually there is a difference in condensers depending on which distributor you have. It is not the condenser itself but the way it is mounted to the distributor body.

[Old n' slow]

[glutamodo]

Some Bosch numbers in the late 60s and early 70s got superseded over time.

For example:

In 1971, the most common cap used on VW distributors was the 1 235 522 183-113 905 207A. By 1978, that was superseded by the 03010/1 235 522 056 - (113 905 207B in 1978 and 113 905 207C in 1996). The only differences between those two caps was that the center terminal on the 03010 sticks up a few millimeters higher, and the color of the cap. Interestingly, the black distributor caps that Bosch used on Brazil-made 009s (9 231 081 711) were identical to the superseded 1 235 522 183 caps of the late 60s/early 70s.

In 1971, the rotor most commonly used was the 1234332107 - 113 905 225E, that was the same in 1978 (by which time it had been given the short number of 04012) and in 1996. But in practice, most sellers substitute the 1234332215 - 043 905 205 (04033), which was introduced on California models in 1974. They look different but fit and function the same.

Now I don't know about whole "with A/C" thing regarding the 1970 "029/AE" distributor. At some point that data crept into the Bosch catalog, then crept out of it again. (it's in the 1978 catalog, but not listed as such in 1996) There's some discrepancies in the books between the 1971, 1978 and 1996 catalogs I have. I tried my best to reconcile them for the charts I maintain, trying to weed out misprints, typos and supersedes, but sometimes I just get a headache trying to cross reference those books with each other and with other sources.

Regardless, in my books, that's the only time I find a mention of A/C, the 029/AE distributor. I have no idea why that sole type 1 listing shows it - and have no idea what the difference would have been - and how many autostick bugs were ordered with A/C in 1970? Was that even an official option, to fit A/C in the Beetle engine compartment along with the Autostick stuff? I guess one change would be the driving dog was rotated slightly to position the vacuum canister out of the way (and even then, why wouldn't VW just have issued installation instructions to rotate the drive gear a tooth to achieve the same thing, like on type 3s?)


Now the condenser being different on the vacuum-only distributors used from mid 1964-70 when used with A/C might be explained by the need for a longer wire due to relocation of the ignition coil.

-Andy

[kreemoweet]

I've tested a fair number of Bosch condensers, with quite a variety of mounting styles, wire lengths, etc., with my capacitance
tester, and they've all been pretty much the same (i.e. within a 20% variance one would expect from non-precision electrical
components such as these). If it physically fits in your application, I think you don't need to concern yourself further.
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'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Old n' slow]

Thank you to all.

Amazing how VW needlessly (???) complicated such an uncomplicated honest fun people transporter.

p.s. now I know to just order the Bosch 009 cap, rotor , etc. and don't think twice about it : )
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Currently own : 1969 Beetle w/ 1600cc, Single Port, Solex 30 PICT 2, Dist. 113 905 205 T, stock exhaust.
All my daily drivers gone but not forgotten;

1964(sunroof)1967 & (2)1968 Beetles , 1968 Squareback , 1963 (23 window )Deluxe Sunroof Bus , 1969 Westphalia camper, 1974 Dasher , 1985 Vanagon , (2) 1981 Rabbit Diesels & a 1991 Jetta Diesel .

[glutamodo]

I don't know if you can blame VW for all of this, I suspect Bosch had a hand in it as well as they introduced the 5-digit warehousing part number system in the mid 70s (that 183 cap never got a 5-digit number that I know of)

And, as I mentioned, it's likely the wholesalers/retailers that chose to stock and sell the 04033 in place of the 04012 rotor, I'm sure it was easier to just deal with one part. The fact that 04033 is a more sturdily built part may have helped influence that decision as well.

So OldNSlow, what distributor are you running? Of centrifugal-009 parts, only the cap/rotor are appropriate for a 1969 vintage distributor, if that's what you happen to be running here.

[Old n' slow]

[Frederik]

I got to this thread when trying to find a post about decoding the cast numbers on a Bosch cap. (There is a 3 digit one in a circle and a 1-3digit freestanding).

This is three of the late "tall cap" used. Closest to the camera is the 1235522056, 2nd 1235522193 and last 1235522183. The "183" and "193" being NOS, the "056" a used one but all are made in Germany. Contrary to previous post, They are all the same size (center terminal absolutly the same hight).

All orange caps that I have have the (200) casting number in a circle on the top. My own thinking was that this was the "phenolic blend" as not just all original german Bosch orange caps, but also orange rotors that I have have this casting #, all brown caps have the (187) casting # and all brown rotors the (155) casting (thougt that it had to do with different blend for the rotors for different strenght.) Then read a post from tasb suggesting that the casting number was manufacturing plant, maybe this is true? What casting numbers, if any, does the taller caps have? Maybe manufacturing at different plant? As to why the Brazil caps are identical to the original 183, 193, 056 they probably took over the old casting molds.