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Fitting a 28 pict
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zabo
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:05 am    Post subject: Fitting a 28 pict Reply with quote

so Im currently stuck getting the old choke cable out and thinking about installing a 28 pict i have laying around to get me by until i have more energy to tackle this.

how are people adapting the hard lines (carb/vacuum)? Do i just need to cut off the ends and add hose or is there a way to fabricate new lines?

If i have to cut them I guess ill by some replacement ones and keep the og's intact.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you have a 36hp?

On the fuel line, yes people usually use a hacked off piece on the fuel pump and run a soft line to the 28 PICT.
If you don't have a piece to use, you could use a hacked piece of brake line, I believe they are the same?

On the vacuum line I don't believe the vacuum draw is the same so if you have the original 36hp distributor you need to use something else like an 009 or an 010 and block the port on the 28 PICT carb with a little piece of hose or a cap.
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet you could just leave the vacuum line on the distributer disconnected and plug the port on the 28PICT carb. The old 36hp distributer had centrifugal advance. I don't know the curve, but try timing for 32 degrees at 3000 rpm and see what you get at idle.
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Helfen
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: fitting a 28 pict Reply with quote

zabo wrote:
so Im currently stuck getting the old choke cable out and thinking about installing a 28 pict i have laying around to get me by until i have more energy to tackle this.

how are people adapting the hard lines (carb/vacuum)? Do i just need to cut off the ends and add hose or is there a way to fabricate new lines?

If i have to cut them I guess ill by some replacement ones and keep the og's intact.


A 28 PICT has a electric choke for 40hp 1200.
A 28PCI is a manual choke used on all 36hp engines up to August 1965. That later ones use pressed in fuel brass line and a vacuum joint connector with a line for a flex hose to the distributor advance.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420686
read thru this before you decide to cut your metal vacuum line Wink
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zabo
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420686
read thru this before you decide to cut your metal vacuum line Wink


i actually saw that a few minutes ago...

EVfun wrote:
I bet you could just leave the vacuum line on the distributer disconnected and plug the port on the 28PICT carb. The old 36hp distributer had centrifugal advance. I don't know the curve, but try timing for 32 degrees at 3000 rpm and see what you get at idle.


So on these distributors the vacuum advance only kicks in on deceleration?
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Last edited by zabo on Thu May 28, 2015 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 36HP 28PCI is designed around the SVDA VJUR4BR8, on which the vacuum portion gives advance booost in low/midrange. High end is handled by the centrifugal advance. This is a description from the 1970s when SVDA came back:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The 28PICT is designed to give low but steadily increasing vacuum as the engine speed increases for a vacuum-only distributor. A 36HP SVDA hooked up to a 28PICT probably won't even deflect the vacuum canister, *maybe* at full throttle, which is when you would least want it. Thus the advice to leave it unhooked and try it with centrifugal only.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
The 36HP 28PCI is designed around the SVDA VJUR4BR8, on which the vacuum portion gives advance booost in low/midrange. High end is handled by the centrifugal advance. This is a description from the 1970s when SVDA came back:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The 28PICT is designed to give low but steadily increasing vacuum as the engine speed increases for a vacuum-only distributor. A 36HP SVDA hooked up to a 28PICT probably won't even deflect the vacuum canister, *maybe* at full throttle, which is when you would least want it. Thus the advice to leave it unhooked and try it with centrifugal only.


Andy, are you saying that a VUR4BR8 is a mechanical and vacuum advance distributor. My distributor is a vacuum advance only unit and it came with my engine. I would assume that my engine's distributor was built for the engine's needs as well and it's a 36hp.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helfen wrote:
Andy, are you saying that a VUR4BR8 is a mechanical and vacuum advance distributor. My distributor is a vacuum advance only unit and it came with my engine. I would assume that my engine's distributor was built for the engine's needs as well and it's a 36hp.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Weird - that is a later distributor, it looks like maybe a 64-65ish distributor in that photo.
Yes, it is vacuum only.
I guess it works fine?
The 28 PCI doesn't usually have a fitting for a vacuum line on the left side, maybe you have a later replacement one or it's been tapped?

You also have a '53 style fuel pump top half and a fresh air fan shroud so obviously some stuff is not original on that 36hp engine.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I was talking about USA 36HP models there. Helfen, yours is a 1965 non-USA Standard 36HP, which used a different carburetor. While this was before they were using stamped modification state codes to differentiate carburetors from one another, they were tagged with a part number originally.

111129023 was for the Beetle 1/53-8/60 36HP, SVDA,
113129023A was for the Beeetle Standard 8/60-11/65, 36HP. (these were for vac-only distributors)
141129023 was for the Ghia 1/55-8/59 36HP, SVDA.
141129023A was for the Ghia 8/59-8/60 36HP (these were for vac-only distributors)
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what kind of carb is that on Helfens engine?

I have a ZV/PAU4R5 laying around as well...
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zabo wrote:
what kind of carb is that on Helfens engine?

I have a ZV/PAU4R5 laying around as well...


My carb is a 28PIC manual choke
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another picture of a fresh air 36hp. It has a different distributor than my 65, and because it's a fresh air the engine must be a 63 or 64.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/threespoke/standardkafer/literature/LIT265brocengine.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah-ha, it's a lter 36hp, that explains the "weirdness".

Interesting that they used a soft line to the carb. on those later 36hp engines.

I'd be interested to know if the later 28 PCI carb. has a fitting on the right side at all.
Early style 36hp metal vacuum fitting, on right side of carb. as you face it:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here near the bottom right you can see it has a block-off screw in it, as it was used in a Bus with no vacuum advance
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Helfen wrote:
Andy, are you saying that a VUR4BR8 is a mechanical and vacuum advance distributor. My distributor is a vacuum advance only unit and it came with my engine. I would assume that my engine's distributor was built for the engine's needs as well and it's a 36hp.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Weird - that is a later distributor, it looks like maybe a 64-65ish distributor in that photo.
Yes, it is vacuum only.
I guess it works fine?
The 28 PCI doesn't usually have a fitting for a vacuum line on the left side, maybe you have a later replacement one or it's been tapped?

You also have a '53 style fuel pump top half and a fresh air fan shroud so obviously some stuff is not original on that 36hp engine.


The car is a 65 111. which is the last year for the 36hp engine. Most people who are really into VW's like Andy are aware of these cars existence It's a numbers matching car. The car ( 1965 111) also has the very old style pan which has the old style buttons for the floor mats and has no seat tracks welded to the pan for the seats, instead it has two studs for each front seat coming through the floor and holds down the seat with a claw and wing nut. When I first bought it in 1968 I would go to the dealer for parts and get all kinds of wrong things for the engine such as oil strainer gaskets and valve cover gaskets. The Points from my distributor were different from the 40 hp deluxe 1200 and after comparison of the dealers inventory of parts the match with my original set turned out to be from a 65 type 3. It's a great mileage car at 38mpg ( used to be 42 before government mandated 10% ethanol ). Like all 36hp engine cars it has a 4.43 ring and pinion that all 36hp and earlier engine cars used back to 1938, however the transaxle is the fully sync box tunnel type. FYI the models that get this combination are the 111- left hand drive, 112- rt. hand drive, 115- left hand drive RAG top sunroof & 116- rt hand drive RAG top sunroof.
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Ah-ha, it's a lter 36hp, that explains the "weirdness".

Interesting that they used a soft line to the carb. on those later 36hp engines.

I'd be interested to know if the later 28 PCI carb. has a fitting on the right side at all.
Early style 36hp metal vacuum fitting, on right side of carb. as you face it:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here near the bottom right you can see it has a block-off screw in it, as it was used in a Bus with no vacuum advance


My fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb was rubber fuel hose, and as said before my inlet brass line into the carburetor was a pressed in type, however the fuel pump had a hard line that used a fitting screwed into the pump and the discharge to the carburetor was not a pressed in type, but was a screen in type with a barb fitting for the hose to the carb, nu-like my 64 1200 40hp which has pressed in brass line for the new style pump.

On the carburetor you are showing it has a block off screw. My 65 111 has a vacuum fitting and a tube from it to the other side of the carb for the vacuum signal to the distributor.
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