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flygvw
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Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 73
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: Fog light Wiring help |
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i have a 1972 Standard Bug and i need to know how to properly wire 2 55Watt foglights and what fuse to wire them to. also going to install another push pull knob in the hole next to the brake warning light that right now has a piece of plastic covering it.
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72' std Bug 1776cc dp, 100cam, weber 38, 009distrib, elec ing, generator Doghouse&external oil cooler. |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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For 110W worth of fog lights you are going to want to wire them direct to the battery with an inline fuse and a relay. Switch operates the relay, relay sends battery power directly to the lights without blowing out your fuses or melting your switch.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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cletus_zuber
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Joined: January 08, 2010
Posts: 2408
Location: Gladstone, Ore
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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One of many diagrams from the gallery:
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1972 1302
HPMX 40's & 019 |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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^ yeah, like that
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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flygvw
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Joined: May 03, 2010
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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I am not familiar with electrical what's the relay....best best is to refer me to a site. Sorry electrically retarded. Lol
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72' std Bug 1776cc dp, 100cam, weber 38, 009distrib, elec ing, generator Doghouse&external oil cooler. |
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MagmaJctAz
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Joined: November 26, 2011
Posts: 289
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| flygvw wrote: |
| I am not familiar with electrical what's the relay....best best is to refer me to a site. Sorry electrically retarded. Lol |
Ouch! Before you venture too far into this, you might want to find a book about basic electrical. Focus your learning on Direct Current (or DC), which is the electrical system cars use.
There may be a site about basic electrical, but I've understood basic electrical since the days before the internet, for that reason I don't know a site off hand.
The relay is such a rudimentary part of DC circuits, it indicates your level of "newness" to this topic. This is not a bad thing, we all started somewhere! In fact, a lot of my learning happened by brute force trial and error. (Not on a car, I was a teenager!)
I'd have to say my electrical competence really took off when I started reading books. The next big leap occurred when I took courses at the Community College. "DC Circuit Analysis" and "AC Circuit Analysis" really kick-started my learning.
A Classic car hobby can be very exciting and as equally rewarding. But if you dive in blind, you will find it overwhelming and frustrating and want to quit.
Your two lights will require a total of 110 watts. At 14.5 VDC they will draw 7.59 amps. You likely will not need a relay as long as your switch is rated for at least 8.3 amps. I don't remember what gauge wire you should use off hand. A 10 amp fuse would probably be a good fit.
When I ran fog lights I found an original rocker switch for my 74 Super. I don't know what market had a fog light option, but I used that switch without a relay. I never had a problem with it heating up. Of course, over the years the cheap auto store lights fell apart, and I've never replaced them.
Regards,
Mike
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1974 Super Beetle. Owned since 1995. Daily Driver. Turned over odometer twice!
1971 Fastback. Check out my Fastback resurrection thread!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627711&highlight= |
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gt1953
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Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Assemble like the diagram above. Both of cars with fogs are wired that way. I use the fog light for the day time running lights.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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windfish
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Joined: September 05, 2012
Posts: 1126
Location: NC
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| MagmaJctAz wrote: |
| You likely will not need a relay as long as your switch is rated for at least 8.3 amps. |
True, may not need a relay with a heavy enough switch, but it's simple to put one in and it takes the load off the switch.
| flygvw wrote: |
| I am not familiar with electrical what's the relay....best best is to refer me to a site. Sorry electrically retarded. Lol |
A relay is basically just an electrical switch.
If you go back to the diagram cletus posted, applying 12v to the Green wire on #86 tells it to complete the circuit between #87 and #30, allowing current to flow from the battery to the lights turning them on.
Anything marked ground (the symbol with three progressively shorter bars, looks a bit like a tree) you can attach to any bare metal on the car (can use a ring terminal on an existing bolt or screw). If you look at your battery the wire coming off the neg. terminal (-) is bolted to the body, so to complete any circuit you just tie back in.
Glenn has a write up on using a relay to solve hard-start issues, basically the same wiring except the black output wire is going to your lights and you're using a separate switch instead of the ignition wire.
http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/relay_starter.htm
Was thinking the picture might help, and Glenn lists a part number (but any generic 4 or 5 pin relay will work fine, I've been using spare Fords).
So for your case: Red to battery, Yellow to ground, Black to lights, Blue to switch.
The power to the switch can come from wherever you want, if you want the lights to turn off whenever the car is off tie in with the ignition (it's on the fuse block, there's wiring diagrams in the Technical section up top). Can also run from the light switch so they turn off when you turn the headlights off (but then cannot be turned on with headlights off).
Straight from the battery works as well, can branch off the wire you run to #30 on the relay.
Your switch may not have a separate ground connection, unless it's something fancy like a lighted switch, but the relay does need it's ground.
Pick out appropriate grade wire (colors don't really matter, could just use one, but separate power and ground colors is handy); if you're using a relay about any switch will work, otherwise spec appropriately.
(...and if you're not using a relay, don't attach the switch to anything but the battery. The relay doesn't draw much, but your wiring isn't spec'd for the additional 9A or whatever those lights will draw.) |
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DesignBuild
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Joined: September 29, 2016
Posts: 314
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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I know this is an older series of posts but I am in the process of wiring new 6 inch diameter Hella amber fog lamps into my '72 Super Beetle and I modified the fog lamp wiring diagram with some additional pertinent information along with a link to a current wire size chart. I also remember seeing a wiring diagram from VWofA for the 1972 1302 Supers. The pre-made wiring looms on Amazon don't use the proper size wires though they claim 400 watt lamps can use 14 gauge wire that is actually 18 gauge. 400W draws 33 Amps and 14 gauge is not sufficient. 10 gauge is recommended for 25 Amps and above.
If you are working on a Super Beetle and you plan on installing a hard-start relay under the rear seat, you can use a new 10 gauge wire connected at the new hard-start relay battery connection and feed the new 10 ga. wire through the loom near where the voltage regulator is located on the driver's side under the rear seat. then install the relay switch near the fuse block. You could install the inline fuse under the seat near where the new hard-start fuse would be located. I installed a hard start relay under my rear seat using a dual point Bosch relay rated for 70 amps. Have not had a starting problem whether it is hot or hard to start. When I first looked into the hard start relay I read that the relay was needed especially when it is very hot outside. When the starter is hot it draws more current than the ignition switch can handle. With the hard start relay installed the ignition switch only sees milliamps and it will last for much longer. You could actually use a relay for everything connected to the ignition switch and it would probably last forever. Here is my version of the fog or driving lamp wiring including some calculation examples for determining the current required (using H4 bulbs).
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vamram 
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Joined: March 08, 2012
Posts: 7306
Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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I'm confused by this diagram. I see #30 goes to the battery positive. #86/Green goes to the toggle switch and powers #87 to run the lights. I get that. What is the white 3amp supply wire and what is it connected to? I thought #30 provided the supply to the relay for when #86 is engaged by the toggle switch?
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cletus_zuber
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Joined: January 08, 2010
Posts: 2408
Location: Gladstone, Ore
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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Vanram, you need very little power to switch on the relay, the high voltage doesn't need to go through the switch, it goes from 30 to 87.
EDIT the 3 amp wire can get power form any key on or hot all the time fuse, I have mine on the SU wire, (the old door buzzer) so the switch is hot whenever the key is in the ignition. (I have my radio relay on the same wire)
Taking the high voltage load off of the switch is why Ashman and others recommend adding a "hard start" relay to the starter circuit, to lengthen the life of the inferior modern aftermarket ignition switches.
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1972 1302
HPMX 40's & 019 |
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bnam
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Joined: July 02, 2006
Posts: 2936
Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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#30 is power for the load circuit. The relay’s switch (86/85) also needs power to trigger it. The white wire provides that power which is first switched by the mechanical switch — and when that is done — it triggers the remote switch (the relay) to send power from battery to lights.
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1971 1302LS Convertible (RHD) owned since '74
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1966 Fiat 1500 Cabrio (with 1600 Twin cam)
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 3580
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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| bnam wrote: |
| #30 is power for the load circuit. The relay’s switch (86/85) also needs power to trigger it. The white wire provides that power which is first switched by the mechanical switch — and when that is done — it triggers the remote switch (the relay) to send power from battery to lights. |
A relay is a switch turned on by a switch. |
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DesignBuild
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2016
Posts: 314
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:37 am Post subject: Re: Fog light Wiring help |
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What is interesting is a comparison between this diagram and the diagram for the 1972 supplemental for the fog lights. In the supplemental the switch only powers the rear red fog lamp. The push pull switch only provides the ground for the electromagnetic mechanical switch in the relay. The + side comes from a fused wire at the fuse block (gray in the attached diagram). Fuses are numbered starting with 1 on the left side and going to 12 on the right side of the fuse box.
Instead of using the switch only for the ground it could be wired to provide the power to the relay instead of the rear fog lamp. Then you would use a splice with the front lamps to operate the rear lamp too. You can see what I mean in the attached wiring diagram. I have added labels to many things so you do not need to look at the key on the right hand side of the sheet. You can find the original on TheSamba in the archives under wiring diagrams.
I think the rear lamp is 8w (<1A) and is as bright as a normal brake light.
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