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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:26 am Post subject: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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Hi all ,
My family and I had a great day at our VW meet on Saturday. The meet was 70 miles away and the drive to the motorway ( interstate ? ) was fine . Once on the motorway the car cruised effortlessly at 60 - 65 mph for about 45 minutes - I was happy as could be .... however once we left the motorway and returned to normal roads the car was reluctant to accelerate cleanly and sort of felt as if we were running out of fuel ( sort of shuddering ) when accelerating ... this lasted 10 - 20 seconds or so and then went back to normalish but was reluctant all the way home ( 20 minutes from motorway )
Any ideas please what could cause this ? I'm going to check valve clearances first since that was the only thing I didn't check prior to takeoff - please advise what else to look for .
It's a 56 with original engine but good condition ! 😃 |
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Mr. OGPaint
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| What was the outside air temperature when this happened? |
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Snort
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Contaminated or blocked fuel supply, plugged accelerator pump, defective or out of adjustment ignition points. |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ultramoron - it was 27 C / 80 F outside 😀
Snort - the week before this the carb was rebuilt and the distributor too , new points checked and double checked for adjustment - although that said I would like to know how the guys here set their points 😉
Why would the engine run so nice to the motorway , on the motorway and only play up after - seems to me to do with the added temp of the engine or something but fair to say there's a lot of guessing going on there 😄 |
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Snort
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005
Posts: 1957
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Rebuilding the carburetor and distributor does not rule out any of the possibilities I listed. At some point you will need to start exploring your motor to find the solution, so my list was intended as a road map to get started.
Plugged accelerator pump will be more evident at slower motor speeds, shifting gears and less so when cruising at speed. |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Snort ,
Thanks for your reply once again . The reason the carb was rebuilt was a delay of a second or so when accelerating ( I thought accelerator pump ) ... that's great now runs well across the rpm range and beautifully on the motorway - problems occurred only when we left .... I'm new to this DIY car service stuff and hence appreciate all advice given - what I don't understand is why this problem if caused for example by a physical blockage isn't constant. Why would it not show all the time - it happened going to the show too - great to motorway - great on motorway - struggling after ? |
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D. Haviland
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 536
Location: Burlington, Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Check points. Reset points. Reset timing.
It just sounds like a points issue. |
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747frieghtdog
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2007
Posts: 215
Location: JAX, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Accelerator pump/ little ball bearings in the passage way stuck.
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55 Oval |
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Kjell Roar
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 1326
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Had some similar problems once. It was one of the plug wires that had been burned omn the preheat-tube and grounded a little.
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I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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tisius
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 1570
Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Westy65 wrote: |
Ultramoron - it was 27 C / 80 F outside ��
Snort - the week before this the carb was rebuilt and the distributor too , new points checked and double checked for adjustment - although that said I would like to know how the guys here set their points ��
Why would the engine run so nice to the motorway , on the motorway and only play up after - seems to me to do with the added temp of the engine or something but fair to say there's a lot of guessing going on there �� |
Sounds like the key elements to have a perfectly nice running engine has been touched in that tune-up the week before.
So you have to go trouble shooting methodically... check ignition (incl gap between points), fuel supply, electrical circuit, valve clearance et cetera.
This is why I only change/adjust one key item at a time (if a full rebuild isn't needed), and then drive the car so see if the work carried out has been effective.
Good luck, I hope you can resolve the issue fast and be a happy driver again!
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you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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I thought I should follow this up rather than leaving it seemingly unresolved ..
I overhauled the fuel pump and suspect the diaphragm hadn't been replaced for at least 35 years - it was rock hard but still pumpin'  I thought that would be it but whilst a slight improvement , nothing to take heart from.
Next we started again with the ignition timing, again , nothing drastic noted in terms of improvements ...
Onto the carb , again , all seemed in order ...
I remember reading in a thread here that valve clearances can cause all sorts of funny symptoms so rocker covers off , in we went .... clearances varied from 0.35mm to zero , so we re-set these at 0.1mm - what a difference ! 
She starts now as soon as the key is turned and runs like a Swiss clock ( without the cuckoo ) ... I loved driving her before , even with all the coughs and farts but now ..... I'm in heaven
Never give up on these niggling faults ! |
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Kjell Roar
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 1326
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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Good 😊
A tip: Valve clearance check should always be done before tuning carburetor and ignition.
_________________
I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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| That's a great tip kjell Roar - I wish I'd done mine earlier !. I'd love to know why valve clearances are THAT important |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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"distributor rebuilding" is more than just replacing tune up parts.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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| tasb wrote: |
| "distributor rebuilding" is more than just replacing tune up parts. |
I'm unsure of your point there ... are you simply stating the obvious or do you mean something else please ? |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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It is very common for someone to say they rebuilt their distributor when all they really did was replace points, condenser, rotor and/or cap. It's no reflection upon you just restating the not so obvious.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Odd symptoms - engine 'shudders' ? |
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| tasb wrote: |
| It's no reflection upon you just restating the not so obvious. |
You're doing it again , you can't help yourself .... of course it's no reflection on me . To me , you defining what does not constitute a re-build is very much stating the obvious - I am English and understand the term 're-build' .
Your original comment was irrelevant , added nothing positive to the thread and was in no way helpful .
I would also give the majority of members here credit for understanding that a points replacement doesn't equate to a re-build - without feeling the need to tell them .
Thank you so much for sharing your 'expertise' - I hope you won't mind me sharing some of mine - " an oil change (even combined with a strainer de-gunge ) does not constitute an engine re-build " |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Westy65 wrote: |
Ultramoron - it was 27 C / 80 F outside 😀
Snort - the week before this the carb was rebuilt and the distributor too , new points checked and double checked for adjustment - although that said I would like to know how the guys here set their points 😉
Why would the engine run so nice to the motorway , on the motorway and only play up after - seems to me to do with the added temp of the engine or something but fair to say there's a lot of guessing going on there 😄 |
You can drop the attitude:it's not necessary.
What I am saying is that there may be other not so obvious issues with the distributor that are causing your symptoms of poor performance. My focus is distributors and I see ads in the classifieds all the time that have "rebuilt distributor" for sale and all they have done is replace the tune up parts. I'm not trying to be negative and if you feel my contribution is irrelevent I'm sorry. I'll stop trying to offer the help you asked for now.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Westy65
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Bratislava
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| tasb wrote: |
I'll stop trying to offer the help you asked for now. |
With respect , you've offered no help whatsoever . Banging on about advertiser's descriptions of distributors in an obviously self serving manner has actually managed to drag this thread completely off-topic .
If you'd bothered to read the posts above , you would have noted that the fault appears to be remedied and it was nothing to do with the distributor - a distributor that has been re-built in the truest meaning of the word. |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Westy65 wrote: |
| With respect, you've offered no help whatsoever. |
Sometimes help doesn't have to smack you in the face. Tim is very knowledgeable and helpful. But I guess you like being smacked in the face & are seriously disappointed otherwise.
| Westy65 wrote: |
| Banging on about advertiser's descriptions of distributors in an obviously self serving manner has actually managed to drag this thread completely off-topic. |
I didn't read any of what you just described. Lighten up.
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