| Author |
Message |
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I know there are guys that use them with super good results. I guess once you get them figured out you can spray with nearly zero orange peel. My best guess is it needs to be reduced a little more and sprayed a little less heavy. 3,4 maybe even 5 light coats.
But spraying a clear coat over it will allow you to wetsand and buff it without touching the metallics. And to get a really nice show car finish you HAVE to wetsand and buff. Even the very best of the best painters have to do it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buguy wrote: |
| I wish I could help but ive never used a turbine before. |
Agreed. Me neither. But, I think your paint supplier let you down/did you a disservice. He should have recommended you going with a Base-Clear system from the get go. I only say that, as it's easier to work with for the beginner using metalic paint.
But, what's done is done, so now you have to work around it.
My suggestion would be to get agressive with the sandpaper on the runs, and plan on re-shooting those parts. Then clear coat everything, so you can wet sand the orange peel out. If needed, re-clear again (even multiple times) to get the paint layer smooth. Use a block with plently of water on those runs, otherwise they'll continue to show.
Like buguy said, even the best painters have to do things they normally wouldn't to get the desired finish they're looking for.
I'm still trying to figure out why you hung the hood. Was it because you were shooting both sides? If so, then I think you were rushing yourself into getting it in color. You probably should have shot the inside part 1st, using it to help dial in your set up.  And then shot the outside when doing your other parts. Like Skill's sig like says "bodywork isn't a race", and neither is painting. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| But if you are going to clear it all, everything will have to be sanded and repainted, then cleared before the recoat window is up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johndl58
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 422
Location: westchester ny
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you guys for trying to get me straight. Im finishing up this pool install at my house over the course of the next few days and then Ill be trying to focus on the bug. Let me tell you, sometimes being stubborn is a serious curse. I shouldve just paid the guy what he wanted to put this pool up. It wouldve been the best money I ever spent. Anyway, I hung the hood and the deck lid because I thought it would just be easier to spray that way. Standing up, side to side on the whole thing, etc. I did practice on the inside of the hood and the insides of the fenders. I got it to the point where I thought it was good enough, obviously not. I definitely rushed, trying to get paint laid on all the pieces in one shot, and experimenting with thinning at the same time plus not knowing how long I had to work with the paint in the cup. Realistically I shouldve just worked on one piece at a time I think. Moving forward- I am going to experiment until I get the best mix and gun setting. I will be sanding everything flat. I am going to spray one piece at a time with a bunch of light coats. Couple of questions:
1.Info on paint(limco 1, I know. Shit paint) says 5-10min between coats. Wait till 10 or closer to 5?
2.If the first coat has peel, will the next coats fill it in or is it junk?
3.If I do end up having to do clear, do I have to spray it within that 5-10min window of the last coat of ss? And do I spray clear after the previous coat of clear has dried or does that have a flash time as well?
Im sure Ill have more quests but Ill give you guys a break for now, haha.
Thank you again, John. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| johndl58 wrote: |
Thank you guys for trying to get me straight.
...Moving forward- I am going to experiment until I get the best mix and gun setting. I will be sanding everything flat. I am going to spray one piece at a time with a bunch of light coats. Couple of questions:
1.Info on paint(limco 1, I know. Shit paint) says 5-10min between coats. Wait till 10 or closer to 5?
2.If the first coat has peel, will the next coats fill it in or is it junk?
3.If I do end up having to do clear, do I have to spray it within that 5-10min window of the last coat of ss? And do I spray clear after the previous coat of clear has dried or does that have a flash time as well?
Im sure Ill have more quests but Ill give you guys a break for now, haha.
Thank you again, John. |
I normally go out for a smoke, and use it as a timer. Basically you're letting it flash/tack up.
Yes, unfortunately that's how it goes. You can put it on slightly wetter for your 2nd coat, which helps smooth the peel finish. Ideally you almost want to "dust" the first coat. This gives the 2nd coat something to bite/hang onto. If needed, put on a 3rd coat to get the color and metallic flow right.
You'll have to look at the material sheet (your paint supplier SHOULD have given you one) to see when they recommend putting a clear coat over it. Most times it's about an hour after you last shot your color coat. That's always worked for me, whether I'm shooting base/clear, or clear coating a single stage paint (I've done that twice with good results).
Keep in mind, that once you put the clear on, after 3 days you can wet sand it, or even start putting the car back together. If you decide to wet sand it, then you have the option of hitting it with some 600, and putting another layer of clear on it, or just wet sand it with 1000 grit, and continue until you're smoother (working your way up in finer grits) and then wheel it up. But, only do that IF you're sure there's enough clear on it to sand.
The idea is to not break thru the clear. If you do, then you'll have spots where you broke thru, and only repainting the entire area will you be able to hide it.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have also found that when painting the longer the better for your flash times within reason of course.
So it it says a 10 minute flash time then allowing 20 or even 30 minutes is just fine. The last time I shot single stage I think I put on 4 pretty wet coats and everything looked great. unfortunately the paint wasn't flashed enough and it got "heavy" and the next day when I came out to see it it had these long long runs it is.
So don't be afraid of longer flash times. Your recoat window is usually like 8 hours so going 30 minutes in between coats is ust fine.
Patience is huge with painting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree. Longer flash times are better than not long enough. Gotta let those solvents get out so you dont have fisheyes and such. Download a tech sheet for your paint, you need it. That will tell you how long your recoat window is and much other information.
I also try to wait an hour or more before clear coating, but I guess your tech sheet may not tell you that because its SS. So give it an hour AT LEAST. 2 or 3 hours might even be better. SS stays wet a bit longer than base coat. Hell you may even be able to wait til the next day.
And really I wouldnt worry about doing one part at a time, you will end up waisting paint that way. Just do whatever will fit and your comfortable shooting all at once.
Try to watch the paint where it meets the surface. Watch whats its doing and try to stay a little ahead of it. If it looks like its too wet, speed up a bit, pull away from the panel a little and maybe use less overlap. If its looking a little dry (grainy/hazy), move in a little closer, slow down, and or overlap each pass a little more. Or just one of those things. You will get the hang of it about the time your finished! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| buguy wrote: |
Download a tech sheet for your paint, you need it. That will tell you how long your recoat window is and much other information.
You will get the hang of it about the time your finished! |
Yes, the tech sheet is invalueable, as it's loaded with all sorts of info.
And yes, about the time you're done shooting the car, you'll be good at shooting the car.  I dont know why that always happens, but it does.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
And another thing. When spraying don't spray so much so that you are making the paint look very glass like right away. Paint will "settle" after you spray it as it melts into the previous layers.
In other words...if you are looking for the paint to be liquidy smooth as you make your passes you are probably laying it on too thick. You will get runs. Lay down that first light coat and walk away. Give it some time. Then come back and look for more coverage but don't worry about getting that glass like look as you spray. The second coat will melt into the first. Then on your third coat (after looong flash) then maybe a bit heavier, but again, don't look for that glass like appearance as you spray. The paint surface will change after you spray it as the paint bonds to the previous layers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johndl58
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 422
Location: westchester ny
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks for the tips. While I'm waiting on flash times between coats should I be worried about paint drying and clogging the tip? Should I clean it while I wait? Seems that if its drying on the car it should be drying in the tip no? On that first coat, am I looking for complete coverage or should the primer/old paint be showing through? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| johndl58 wrote: |
| Thanks for the tips. While I'm waiting on flash times between coats should I be worried about paint drying and clogging the tip? Should I clean it while I wait? Seems that if its drying on the car it should be drying in the tip no? On that first coat, am I looking for complete coverage or should the primer/old paint be showing through? |
You shouldn't have a problem with it drying on the tip, but if it does, just use some laquer thinner to give it a quick clean. Then give it a couple of quick blasts of the trigger before pointing the gun at what you want to paint.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah I doubt it would. Only thing I have ever had a problem with drying is Poly primers in the summer. But they have like a 30 min pot life. Your single stage is probably like 8-24 hours. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| johndl58 wrote: |
| Thanks for the tips. While I'm waiting on flash times between coats should I be worried about paint drying and clogging the tip? Should I clean it while I wait? Seems that if its drying on the car it should be drying in the tip no? On that first coat, am I looking for complete coverage or should the primer/old paint be showing through? |
I always clean my gun between coats. Complete coverage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| johndl58 wrote: |
| Thanks for the tips. While I'm waiting on flash times between coats should I be worried about paint drying and clogging the tip? Should I clean it while I wait? Seems that if its drying on the car it should be drying in the tip no? On that first coat, am I looking for complete coverage or should the primer/old paint be showing through? |
I always clean my gun between coats. Complete coverage |
I kind of disagree with both of these statements. There simply is no reason to clean your gun between coats. Also you will have to check that tech sheet again. But most likely it will tell you medium or medium wet coats. You probably wont get complete covereage on the first coat. Meaning not full color. If you did there would be no point in any more paint than that really. I wouldnt even worry about covereage. Just nice medium wet consistant passes. Try thinking of yourself as a robot and how a robot would spray. That way its repeatable. Good even passes with the same overlap each time and keep putting them on til you have full covereage. Also try to think ahead when you spray. You want wet edge over wet edge as much as possible. Meaning if your spraying a hood, start on one side and work towards the middle. Once in the middle, stop, change sides and pick back up in the middle where you stopped and work toward you on the other edge. Of course you will have at least one wet edge over a dry edge from where you start/stop, but many times that can be the only one. So try to do it in a small area or someone not so visble. Using the right reducer will minimize the need for that though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johndl58
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 422
Location: westchester ny
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thanks guys. I can't wait to give this another shot. I think I have a chance now of hopefully making this look at least a 10 footer. Haha. Now I just need a couple of days to sand, prep, and paint. I want to get it right before I tackle the actual car portion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dirtkeeper
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| buguy wrote: |
| dirtkeeper wrote: |
| johndl58 wrote: |
| Thanks for the tips. While I'm waiting on flash times between coats should I be worried about paint drying and clogging the tip? Should I clean it while I wait? Seems that if its drying on the car it should be drying in the tip no? On that first coat, am I looking for complete coverage or should the primer/old paint be showing through? |
I always clean my gun between coats. Complete coverage |
I kind of disagree with both of these statements. There simply is no reason to clean your gun between coats. Also you will have to check that tech sheet again. But most likely it will tell you medium or medium wet coats. You probably wont get complete covereage on the first coat. Meaning not full color. If you did there would be no point in any more paint than that really. I wouldnt even worry about covereage. Just nice medium wet consistant passes. Try thinking of yourself as a robot and how a robot would spray. That way its repeatable. Good even passes with the same overlap each time and keep putting them on til you have full covereage. Also try to think ahead when you spray. You want wet edge over wet edge as much as possible. Meaning if your spraying a hood, start on one side and work towards the middle. Once in the middle, stop, change sides and pick back up in the middle where you stopped and work toward you on the other edge. Of course you will have at least one wet edge over a dry edge from where you start/stop, but many times that can be the only one. So try to do it in a small area or someone not so visble. Using the right reducer will minimize the need for that though. |
Sounds like you have more experience than me so i would listen to what your saying.
I clean my gun between coats cause it only takes about a minute and i will be waiting 20 or more to coat again. I do it not so much to keep the gun clean but to avoid any drying at the nozzle and air holes on the tip. Gives me confidence i dont start spraying again only to find i had a chunk a paint dry in one of the holes. I see no harm and possible benefit.
I think its good to have full coverage especially in the inside edges and places its hard to get paint to. Then i can concentrate on making the top coat flow out really well and wet. I dont think you should be able to see primer or previous paint showing through much after the first coat. I go a medium coat , full coverage though , and then a wet coat. I have had problems where i didnt get enough paint on certain areas after a final coat that looks good except for the lite areas. Now i make sure my first coat covers well and then i concentrate on smooth wet final coat and not worry about coverage or paint thickness. works for me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| There for sure isnt just one way to do this stuff. Everybody is different and it is whatever works best for you. Just have to be careful of putting too much material on too fast and trapping the solvents under the surface. The topmost part of the paint can skim over pretty easy and trap the solvents under it and cause fisheyes. Its even worse in the summer temps. Thats why its so important to choose the right temp reducer for where you are spraying. But as I said, each person has a different way of doing things. Sounds like the OP has some confidence now to tackle it and have good results. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5156
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Actually fisheyes are from contamination and solvent pop is due trapping the solvent under successive layers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buguy
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 4915
Location: Port Orange, FL
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Agreed. But most novice would be able to recognize the difference. They look nearly identical. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johndl58
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2013
Posts: 422
Location: westchester ny
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Finally got acupl minutes to mess around last night. Figured the garbage can was a good enough test victim. Mixed a small batch with hardener and the proper reducer as instructed 4:1:1. Seemed to be a good consistency. Took some passes and adjusted paint flow as I went. Seemed to find a sweet spot(which I mentally noted) and did a few coats taking my time. I think it came out much better than previously. That was with the smallest tip, 1.0 I believe. I think I'm gonna give it a try with the 1.5 just for comparison. I'm running out of things to practice on haha. I also am thinking I might need more paint. This first round and practice put a dent in my gallon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
