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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Best avoided. |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Just removed one and all the sticking flaps from an overheating kit car, temps are fine now
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| omg !! MR SCOTT haven't you read that the internet gods will will get angry fro not running a tstat and the entire car will be encased in a block of ice!!! witch isant bad hear in the hot weather. |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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No thats not true, but I did advise him to watch out for the bus load of nuns
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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That appears to be the mexican version that fails shut. Some say that the OG version fails shut too.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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I thought the original thermostat failed open?
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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Howard 111
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I run the Brazil doghouse that has no flaps, always open and no heater outlets. But I have a new thermostat from Berg. And a never used Doghouse with the flaps. Isn't it easy to build up never used parts?
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1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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There has been a few threads on the Samba that address thermostat options and the OG is supposed to fail open but has been stated to have failed shut in one users experience. If they start to look beat they should be replaced before either type fails.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Howard 111 wrote: |
| I run the Brazil doghouse that has no flaps, always open and no heater outlets. But I have a new thermostat from Berg. And a never used Doghouse with the flaps. Isn't it easy to build up never used parts? |
Yes it is...and I have a bunch of them.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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Boolean
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot see any failure mode where the OG thermostat fails open. The linkage could be jammed maybe, but that would not be the thermostats fault.
_________________
I strive for perfection. Excellence will not be tolerated!
Build thread here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529379 |
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ekacpuc
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: ketchikan alaska
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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the originals just stay expanded when they fail... I had one that never shrunk.
Guys not running thermostats either don't care or don't understand. |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Most times they the OEMs fail open, sometimes you find a broken accordion under the tins, expanded to 4 inches or so, only once have I seen one fail closed, I guess oxidation stuck all the bellows together, and pierced the skin. Highly unlikely, mut apparently possible.
Either way, with head and oil temp gauges, you should see any problems immediately. I would trust a 40-year old German thermostat over one of the new ones which came out of the factory yesterday. |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Take them off and they won't fail at all. This is a subject I normally keep my mouth shut. I DO NOT used the thermostat and flaps on any engine I have built in the last 30 years, and none of my engines have suffered a thermo nuclear meltdown.
If you live in a cold climate the thermostat & flaps helps warm the engine up. It does not help cool the engine once it gets hot.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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67jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2005
Posts: 4741
Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take them off and they won't fail at all. This is a subject I normally keep my mouth shut. I DO NOT used the thermostat and flaps on any engine I have built in the last 30 years, and none of my engines have suffered a thermo nuclear meltdown.
If you live in a cold climate the thermostat & flaps helps warm the engine up. It does not help cool the engine once it gets hot. |
you are part of the problem
scenario: engine on engine dyno, ambient weather 88 degrees. engine fully warmed up. under load flaps open all the way, under no load flaps partially close. witnessed this effect in person. its the same when you are driving the car. the tstat and flaps not only aid in quicker more efficient warm ups, they help keep the engine at optimal operating temps under load/no load conditions.
engines in proper tune always running at optimum temps lead to longer engine lives. not running flaps and tstat is silly. the parts are readily available to those who choose to look. the cost of gathering all the bits is not that expensive.
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67 bug x3
67 ghia
64 bug |
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HRVW
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 2531
Location: Rosarito, Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Press your two hands together and RUB them back and forth rapidly for 5 mins (if possible).
Your hands will be Super HOT unless you separate or Blow on them.
Metal to Metal will have the same result even with oil to cool so I have had a engine run at an idle for 2-3 mins with a LOT of HEAT coming from the engine bay with the deck lid wide open......they do warm up quickly.
VW was/is not the only air cooled engine of the past 100 some yrs...Franklin comes to mind....not sure if they had Flaps etc. |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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When it is cool out ,the cooling system is oversized.  The flaps double as a vane but apparently this is not a big deal.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3594
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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Run a power pulley in the winter and a full size in the summer. Run the oil cooler with a real tempeture controlled thermostat and not the VW pressure controlled setup.
Dan |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mine are fail proof.it wont fail closed. it wont fail open,it just wont fail,might be related to the energizer bunny. |
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