Can't turn engine by hand

Tcash · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:25 am Post subject:

IIRC there is only two Type IV flywheels. VW and Porsche, the difference is the placement of the starter ring (teeth).
You do not say how long the engine has set. If it has set for some time. There could be surface rust in the cylinders. A bore scope would tell this.
If it is rust. The best thing to do, would be to have the cylinders honed and the rings inspected.
Good Luck
Tcash

hoodain · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:35 am Post subject:

To be clear, I consider these issues my problem, not theirs. I received delivery of the engine a year ago. It sat in the shipping crate in a very dry environment for 10 months. I have a new child and have had no time to deal with it until recently. I am confident that the issues that I am having are due to the extended storage of the engine, not from any negligence on the part of the rebuilder.

No penetrating oil has been put in the engine, only a very small squirt of engine oil in each spark plug hole.

I will be pulling the engine and going from there. Thanks for all of your help.

SGKent · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:56 am Post subject:

Joey · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:13 am Post subject:

When you bolted the fan to the hub did you forget the large washer?

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SGKent · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject:

hoodain · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:59 am Post subject:

Good thinking!

That may be the issue, I will look into it when I am back home next weekend. The engine definitely does not have the spacer. The bus that I bought came without it, and I wasn't actually aware that there was supposed to be one until you posted about it and I went to look at the parts diagrams. I will post an update when I get back. Thanks for the suggestion!

old DKP driver · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: fan spacer

Today,
I went out to the garage and removed the fan and spacer from an engine I have on the bench and put the fan back on with fan housing and the engine
will still turn with no problem.

I also hoped this may have been the solution Sad

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Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

old DKP driver · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:47 pm Post subject: fan spacer

Wildthings.
I agree with you also since the spacers job is to prevent the back side of the fan from scrapping the fan housing

I didn't torque the fan to the hub just installed the fan housing and tried both
with and without spacer.

lets hope it's that simple for the OP.
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mikedjames · Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:35 am Post subject:

What you are describing sounds a bit like a mistake l made ONCE. I turned the engine over by hand with a disfributor driveshaft fitted but without a distributor fitted and the worm gear on the crank got chewed as the driveshaft rode up and then jammed. Duh.

It needed a strip down and replacement of the gear on the crank.

Alternatively if oil in the cylinder heads helps it move then it is probably worth taking the heads off to have a look to see why.
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hoodain · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject:

UPDATE:

I received the fan spacer and installed it. Nothing changed, the engine still behaved as before. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

I then pulled the engine. I measured the flywheel, it is 228mm. There are no marks on the inside of the bellhousing to indicate any rubbing. More importantly, the engine's turning behavior did not change after I pulled it. I removed the fan and put a torque wrench on the crank pulley bolt. I can get the engine to turn over completely if I put a wrench on this bolt. The torque required to turn the engine over ranges from 2-3 ft-lbs to 14 ft-lbs. I am fortunate that it didn't take any more torque than that, as 14 ft-lbs is the torque spec for that bolt.

Is this normal? If not, I will give the rebuilder a call for advice. Thanks.

richparker · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:00 pm Post subject:

I know nothing about T4s but Adrain seems to be the man when it comes to T4s and I would 100% call him.
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SGKent · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject:

with the plugs out maybe 5 to 15 inch pounds once it gets going as a wild speculative guess. It is possible sitting the cylinders got rusty but it is also possible it got dropped in shipping.
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hoodain · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject:

I gave Adrian a call, he thinks it's oxidation in one or more of the cylinders. I am going to ship it back to him and he is going to take a look at it.

He is a great guy, I'm not used to dealing with mechanics that are so customer service oriented.

richparker · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject:

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aeromech · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject:

Adrian is nice but not Jesus. You mean there are no engine guys in NM? How much is shipping an engine RT from NM to Vista, Ca?
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Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

Did you put the flywheel on yourself? If so did you install a new o-ring into the bore in the flywheel? It is possible to do this incorrectly when will lock the engine up.

VWCOOL · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject:

No new engine is easy to turn over "by hand"

Use a spanner

timvw7476 · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: Can't turn engine by hand

I would not freak just yet, if the alternator is still on, spray lube (your choice)
in every cylinder, use a large crescent or box end on the alternator nut
the next day-try rocking it to & fro, if the alternator belt "slips", apply
tension with a finger & keep working the wrench to get some movement.
P.S.: I had to do this three days ago, on a running type 4,while adjusting
valves. Type 4 never turn nice and smooth til they're worn out.

SGKent · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Can't turn engine by hand


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