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Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2211 Location: UK (South)
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:47 am Post subject: Hunting at idle |
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Hi
Sorry - I know this is a very long post, but I needed to explain all the steps I've already tried...
I've been trying to tune the carb on my single cab for the last few weeks, but it's behaving oddly. I rebuilt the carb (a German Solex 34-pict-3) using a mixture of old and new parts (some of the bits in the generic Solex rebuild kit wouldn't fit, or just broke, so I re-used original parts where possible, cleaned everything and replaced the gaskets).
The engine is a 1600 dual-port, with a VW block, but with Brazilian heads. The inlet manifold looks to be a genuine VW part. I've checked the valve gaps and timing (looks to be an original Bosch 009 distributor, but it's been upgraded with a Compufire ignition module).
After rebuilding the carb, I followed the tuning instructions on vw-resource, step by step, including setting the Fast Idle Adjuster gap and set the Volume Control Screw (the small screw) to 2.5 turns out.
Initially, the carb wouldn't respond to any adjustment of the Bypass Screw (the big screw). I suspected an air leak around the throttle spindle and the carb to manifold flanges both turned out to be rather warped, so I pulled the carb, fitted new throttle spindle bushes and lapped (flattened) the manifold flange on the carb. I also filed the inlet manifold flange flat (also warped).
Despite doing all that, when I re-fitted the carb again, the engine wouldn't tune and was 'hunting' at idle, cycling from 600 rpm to 1400 rpm while I was trying to tune the carb. I had to set the idle to around 1400 just to keep it running.
Last night I tried checking again for air in-leakage around...
the carb base
throttle spindle
along the manifold
at the manifold boots (it's a dual-port)
at the manifold-to-head joints
at the Bypass Screw
at the Volume Control Screw
I wedged the throttle to run at about 1500 rpm and sprayed carb cleaner at those points, but got no conclusive results. At a couple of points, e.g. the carb base, the revs blipped up momentarily, but I couldn't recreate the effect when I tried spraying the same area again. (Would carb cleaner cause the gasket to swell and seal any leak?)
The only time I had a significant change in revs throughout the test, was when I sprayed carb cleaner directly in to the air cleaner, which proved that it could affect the revs (it stumbled and started to die).
When the engine was well warmed up, I managed to set the idle speed to 850, but blipping the throttle screwed up the idle setting and it 'hunted from 650 to 1000rpm.
I finally got it roughly stable at about 800 rpm but when I adjusted the Volume Control Screw, it ran faster the leaner I set it, which was the opposite of what I'd expected. It ran faster as I screwed it in, until it finally died when the screw was all the way in. For now I've set it back to 2.5 turns out, but I know the mixture won't be right.
The engine ran surprisingly well afterwards, but I know that the mixture won't be right because the Volume Control Screw is at its default/starting point. I need to check tonight to see how it starts and runs from cold.
Can anyone think of any diagnostics I've missed? Am I doing something wrong?
One other thing, the Volume Control Screw is the original from the carb. The o-ring on the replacement screw in the kit shredded, so I re-used the original, but as above, I couldn't detect any air leakage at the screw.
I'm stumped. |
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olliehank47 Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011 Posts: 1198
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Hunting at idle |
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Who.Me? wrote: |
I finally got it roughly stable at about 800 rpm but when I adjusted the Volume Control Screw, it ran faster the leaner I set it, which was the opposite of what I'd expected. It ran faster as I screwed it in, until it finally died when the screw was all the way in. For now I've set it back to 2.5 turns out, but I know the mixture won't be right.
The engine ran surprisingly well afterwards, but I know that the mixture won't be right because the Volume Control Screw is at its default/starting point. I need to check tonight to see how it starts and runs from cold.
Can anyone think of any diagnostics I've missed? Am I doing something wrong?
One other thing, the Volume Control Screw is the original from the carb. The o-ring on the replacement screw in the kit shredded, so I re-used the original, but as above, I couldn't detect any air leakage at the screw.
I'm stumped. |
I'm thinking you've still got a significant air leak.
On the 34 PICT-3, the volume control screw adjusts air, not fuel, so turning it clock-wise (inward) cuts the air volume, making the mixture richer, not leaner as you suspect.
"Next set the volume of gas available at idle speeds. This is done using the Volume Control Screw. Please note that the Volume Control Screw controls the AIR volume, not the fuel volume. Screwing it in reduces the air and makes the fuel/air mixture richer. And of course turning the Volume Control Screw out increases the concentration of air and makes the mixture leaner." http://www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html
What you did to get the engine running somewhat decently is to enrich the mixture as much as the screw would allow, and still, you had idle issues.
Try using a vacuum cleaner and reverse the air flow so air blows through the hose. Connect the vacuum cleaner hose to the carb opening, open the choke and butterfly valve, and turn on the vacuum. Use soapy water to check for bubbles at any joints/gaskets/connections between the carb and the heads. |
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Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2211 Location: UK (South)
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Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks.
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I'm thinking you've still got a significant air leak. |
Bummer. I was hoping I'd sorted that.
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Try using a vacuum cleaner and reverse the air flow so air blows through the hose. Connect the vacuum cleaner hose to the carb opening, open the choke and butterfly valve, and turn on the vacuum. Use soapy water to check for bubbles at any joints/gaskets/connections between the carb and the heads. |
I'll give that a try at the weekend. I'll need to give the shop vac a thorough clean - don't want to blow grit in to the intake.
I can see it working if the leak is anywhere other than the inlet manifold to head connection, but can you actually see the inlet to head connection with the engine in?
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On the 34 PICT-3, the volume control screw adjusts air, not fuel, so turning it clock-wise (inward) cuts the air volume, making the mixture richer, not leaner as you suspect. |
The following from that VW resource link is what confused me. I figured if screwing it out would cause the revs to increase, that would be because it was enriching the mixture...
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With the engine warmed up and the choke fully open, go back to the Volume Screw and adjust it slowly to obtain the fastest (smoothest running) idle speed (this is usually out - counter-clockwise). You should not turn the screw out much outside the range of 2-3 turns (1/2 turn in/out from the basic 2-1/2 turn out setting).
Then turn the Volume Control screw back IN (clockwise) very slowly until the engine speed drops by about 20-30 rpm (slightly leaner). |
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Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2211 Location: UK (South)
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Hunting at idle |
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olliehank47 wrote: |
Try using a vacuum cleaner and reverse the air flow so air blows through the hose. Connect the vacuum cleaner hose to the carb opening, open the choke and butterfly valve, and turn on the vacuum. Use soapy water to check for bubbles at any joints/gaskets/connections between the carb and the heads. |
Well that worked surprisingly well. Found a leak - it's around one of the throttle spindle bushes that I replaced
Thinking back, that bush did go in with gentle finger pressure, whereas I had to use a vice to press the other one in.
I couldn't find any other leaks using this test, so hopefully this is the cause of the problem.
I'll be looking for another carb then. |
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Who.Me? Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014 Posts: 2211 Location: UK (South)
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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I can buy a rebuilt Solex 34 pict 3 as a part-exchange for mine in the UK, but the cost may be higher than getting one shipped in from the US.
Can anyone recommend an advertiser on here who sells properly refurbished, genuine, Solex 34 pict 3 carbs? |
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