Black Fastback Build Thread

MonT3 · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:59 am Post subject:

Pic answers my question. Was curious if you were getting the inside tunnel hit while welding the pan and outer tunnel. Cool.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you can, screw the apron in like you did the panel AND test fit the back fenders to ensure the lower end of the apron and the horizontal line that starts on the fenders line up. I would recommend the time spent getting that verified. I didn't do it and I see where I'm off a bit. Look forward to your next installment of pics and yes, I'm reading this thread Laughing

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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

racoguy · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:29 am Post subject:

Bruv, I have an idea for you to think about. With your apron have you considered panel bonding the upper and lower horizontal edges?
3M make a 2 part panel glue, fricken amazing stuff. No distortion from welding and SUPER SUPER strong.
You would just plug weld the sides on.

I glued the roof on my T34 that way, glue down the length of the gutters and plug welded in the front and rear window frames. That sucker aint never coming off!

You just have to make sure you get a thick bead on and have some method of clamping it in place till dry.

Ohh yeah, come to NZ and build my motor..........I'll come and do your panel work Laughing

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Bobnotch · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:19 am Post subject:

Clatter · Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject:

Clatter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:38 am Post subject:

Spent the day before yesterday monkeying with the rear kick.
Instead of slitting it like Bob did, I raised the hump-hole in the middle.

Starting to get to the point in the build where i wish i had another one of these cars sitting here to see how it goes together(!)
Instead, i'm buggin y'all... Wink

Seems that the rear kick panel doesn't want to be vertical, or square to the pans, but to kick back at the top, at a bit of an angle?
Here's my square lying flush on the floor-pan:

Seems that the little kick-stand/diagonal brace says that's where it would go..
Maybe the Gerson pan is different here where it mates?
(top middle of pic)

But,
Trying it on my old pan, the area where the brace is seems the same.
And the kick still leans back a bit when i try it on?

So, that's my first question - Does your kick sit 'leaned back a bit at the top' when you check it relative to the floor with a square?

Second,
Even though i have the tunnel-hump hole raised, and the kick is sitting down flush on the pans,
The kick is stiill quite a bit taller than the adjacent little kick-panels on the body.

This is normal?
Anybody out there can confirm this for me?

Also, I'm assuming that the face of the kick is flush with the two little body panels? Eh?

Is this right?
You know what happens when you ASSume...

So,
Anybody out there with an actual assembled car that can take a measurement or a pic or two for me?

I know it seems petty/trivial, but if this kick gets put in wrong,
The carpets might not fit, the rear seat could not fit, the panels that go on would be wonky, etc. etc.
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Clatter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:43 am Post subject:

Oh, and that idea of using Panel-Bond on the rear apron is genius!

Was here dreading the mangling of it with the welder..

Applause

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MonT3 · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject:

Good on you on the rear panel. Now hurry and paint it! Laughing

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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

Clatter · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject:

I bought the Panel Bond today,

But I'm Skeered to commit!

Nobody here to hold my hand while i do it... Anxious

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racoguy · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject:

Do a dry run with mounting it and figure a good way of clamping it on for the drying process, that way you'll have all your clamps etc ready to go.
Also make sure your edges meet the apron nicely, no big gaps etc.
Panel bold must be applied to bare metal only!

I'd bond the panel and clamp in place, hold the ends with tek screws or grips until the glue sets then plug weld the ends one at a time letting things cool between.
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Clatter · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:43 am Post subject:

Got my headlight buckets back in yesterday.

That's something, right?
Progress is progress..

Maybe I'll get up the guts to glue on an apron.
Maybe.
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catbox · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject:

You can do it!
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"...these cars were preferred by the racers because the strut front suspension results in far superior handling than the regular torsion bar front end..." - Keith Seume.

MonT3 · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject:

Clatter · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:36 am Post subject: Obsess!

Haven't really done much;
Been obsessing over this rear apron!
(Hi Monte)

The rear of this car is the only part that did not get mangled in a wreck.
(At least it used to be... Embarassed

)
In order to fit everything, and get gaps right, the rear is the first part to go on,
Then everything gets set, going forward from there - rear fenders, then doors, then front fenders/clip...

So,
the lower 'lip' that runs sideways all across the middle/lower of the apron seems a bit 'shallow' or too far forward (front of car).

In my six dozen trial-fits of the apron, each time it comes off, i move the whole lower flange/lip of rear of the car a bit more 'back', or 'out'.
This allows me to make the apron fit the rear fenders, which can only move so far forward..
A pic - this makes no sense, right?

Here, the apron is too far forward,
And the front fenders are shoved as far forward as i can to match the apron.
The flat sheet that is sandwiched between them (part of the car's actual shell) is now sticking out, proud, more than it ever would when the car hasn't been mangled.

Here is another bit that is driving me nuts-
Can't seem to get the apron low enough to make this corner flow around, er, 'roundly', without the bottom sticking up.

Here's a better shot of the issue -
The top corner is not fitting, and if it does, the curve that flows vertically across the whole body of the apron gets thrown off.

So,
As much as i hate it,
It just seems that some compromises are going to have to be made with the way the facking thing fits...

Another issue -
i don't have any of those long/deep vise-grips like a real body shop would have.
If i had a dozen of those 12"-deep vice-grips, i'd clamp that lower lip all nice and tidy all the way across.
Since i don't, it got Cleco'ed..

Think it will be an issue when it comes time to weld the Cleco holes shut?
Will the panel bond catch fire, and warp and burn and play hell?

I really really need to go ahead and bite the bullet, and attach that facking apron!
But I'm just so Skeeeeered it will be wrong forever!!
Embarassed

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Bobnotch · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Obsess!

MonT3 · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject:

I think it looks good. I don't think you offsets are bad. as for the holes, Maybe you can place some of that adhesive and stop short of the hole and weld that hole in. Once done, seam seal that lip on both the inner and outer part.

Mike Fisher made a good point on my post. The bumper will cover the lines that may be miss-aligned. I think you're good. Press forward man.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

Clatter · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject:

Thanks for sharing, guys...
I went ahead and did it!
Right or wrong - what's done is done.

Had the apron off, and was noodling with fits for the umpteenth time;
Trying to flatten out the bottom of the duct area, make it longer, and open up the lip flange a smidge..

And i just said Fuggit!
Hit the wall - couldn't futz with it any longer.
Just took and cold glued the thing on!

It will be interesting to see what happens when i go and weld the cleco holes shut.
Cause I'm going to go and weld them shut. That's just that.
It'll still stick on!
-and-
If the whole car burns up, then i won't have to work on it any more! Very Happy

YAY!

Since that went really quickly once i decided to do it,
I started in on those front fenders.
Fitted the inner splash;
(just like the last couple of times i did it... Rolling Eyes

)
Also note the many screws holding the clip into what i think is the perfect location.

This fitment allowed me to body-work the curve just right to match the rocker.

It does bring up a question -

"Is this bolt an M6 machine screw, or just a sheetmetal screw?"

I found this little wonder in my collection of front fender hardware..

WTF?

I get the feeling I'm getting PO'ed..
Can anyone pretty please tell me if that bottom bolt is a machine screw,
or just a sheetmetal screw, like holds the fenders on with the clip dealies???

That led to my getting the splashes tacked into the front fenders.
This involved the usual epoxy-stripped contact spots and weld-through like before.

Like last mock-up,
The passenger fender fits beautifully.

The driver's side, not so much.. Evil or Very Mad

As a matter of fact,
The driver's side has a 'negative gap' - as in, the hood lies on top of the fender, overlapping it! Mad

Crappy, crappy.

ANyhow,
I got yelled at right after the drivers fender got hung, but,
Maybe we'll get to futz with it tomorrow?

Hoping against hope that a few adjustments can bring me some happiness here.
Going to try and hopefully get a good body man by here for some advice, as it's really over my head.

Nut this last one, and it's time for some filler and sanding...
Pissed as i am about it, it's not some kind of surprise.

Final hurdle!
Anybody have an idea about this last bit, I'm all ears.
'Cause,
Well,
That's some fuckery right there for sure... Confused

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Bobnotch · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:22 am Post subject:

Bobnotch · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject:

Bobnotch · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject:

Bobnotch · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject:

A couple of things to think about on your "panel alignment". First, when you add the beading, you're going to push the fenders out 1/16th of an inch (from being tight metal to metal). Next, when you add the D-19 tape to the lip for the fender to bolt on (at the rear of the front fenders), you're going to push that area out 3/32nds of an inch (starts out as an 1/8th, but squishes down some). This is why it's kind of hard to get everything perfect before painting (I tried to explain that to Leo too), as some of the body lines/gaps are going to change. You just get it as close as you can, and move on.If you really want it perfect, then you need to get a roll of fender beading, and a roll of D-19 tape, and install both, so you can get everything aligned. Metal shims won't help much, unless you plan to use them, and keep them in place after paint. Note, I've seen and even added shim plates to hinges to help get doors to fit better, and even did that on fenders with domestics. You'd be amazed at how much a pc of 18 gage aluminum in the right place, will move a door. Shocked

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Black Fastback Build Thread
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