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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: The Adventures of Ruby |
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I know it has spindles that drops it - from a Ghia I've read.
Any other info to be obtained?
On the subject of obtaining information, what can be gained from the numbers off of the casings?
Now to my real problem - test runs went ok, but Ruby's maiden voyage was a disaster. Made it about a mile then started losing power under load. Limped it home. (Pretty sure I had a small heart attack pushing it last 1/3 of a mile. It's ok though, my wife took a picture while "helping".)
Couldn't get it to re-start - today I changed the oil (was over filled by PO) adjusted the valves (were mostly ok, only slight adjustments), changed the points (pretty sure I got the gap right)(Previously replaced the condenser). Made the spark plug gap for all cylinders .026.
Re-charged the battery, pretty much killed it while trying to limp it home.
After said work I was able to re-fire the motor, messed with the distributor timing at idle a little, by sound(do not have a dwell or timing gun). Idled for 4-5 minutes without issue but when I tried to give to gas it bogs down severely. After about 5 minutes at idle it become rather sluggish before I shut it down.
I want to think carb issue (rebuild about two weeks ago) or over heating (but has load issue even when cold). Any thought???
JD
Last edited by jdnizzle on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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OLD VW NUT
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Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2776
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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The AS-41 case is one of the later ones - good for building a hot or stock motor. As for the overfilled crankcase check the oil you drained out for gasoline smells. Which would bring me to the driving problem you encountered - sounds like a fuel pump which could be pumping more fuel into the crankcase (can you say boom?) than into the carb. Which is why I suggest you check the used oil for gas smells.
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71 Ghia Coupe - stock body - no rust! Powered by a 2110 W/Dual HPMX 44's - Rancho Pro Street Transaxle - A/C by Gilmore
Other car - 2013 VW Golf TDI |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Forgot to post this originally -
'74 standard, did the oil filter come normally? I thought they had only the screen from the factory...
I tried to do some research but haven't found an answer yet - why could too much oil cause an issue with the fuel pump? Old oil (overfilled) did not have a noticeable gas smell, car idles fine now but bogs and dies with throttle.
Thanks guys/gals!!
JD |
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Steve22
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Joined: March 05, 2004
Posts: 1389
Location: the wild unknown
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
Forgot to post this originally -
'74 standard, did the oil filter come normally? I thought they had only the screen from the factory...
I tried to do some research but haven't found an answer yet - why could too much oil cause an issue with the fuel pump? Old oil (overfilled) did not have a noticeable gas smell, car idles fine now but bogs and dies with throttle.
Thanks guys/gals!!
JD |
there's part of your problem right there... you're missing the sled tins; what other tin don't you have?
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'73 Super Beetle
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I was wondering what the bolts out of case were for... Curious as to how the sled tins help with cooling, wouldn't open air underneath allow for more flow?
Here is the best engine shot I have right now, not sure what tins I would be missing.
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garyt
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Joined: June 14, 2015
Posts: 763
Location: Burgundy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| The tins are all about cooling but that would only become apparent on a longish/hot trip. Your symptoms seem different to that. |
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awreed
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Joined: January 14, 2010
Posts: 1268
Location: Kirkland, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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The sled tins direct the heated air out towards the back of the car instead of straight down. They do help keep the engine run as cool as possible. Good idea to put em back on.
Also, you're running heater boxes but have the outlets in the fan shroud capped off. You don't have to use the heat for the car, but not having air moving through those heater boxes is going to cook your exhaust; the heated air is just gonna get hotter and hotter inside those exchangers. Putting the flexible aluminum tubes back on will also have he benefit of plugging up those huge holes in your rear tin. |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
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Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
| I was wondering what the bolts out of case were for... Curious as to how the sled tins help with cooling, wouldn't open air underneath allow for more flow? |
No. Don't try to out-think VW on the cooling system, they did all kinds of testing and development for DECADES to get the cooling air flow right. You pulling guesses out of the air is counterproductive. Fluid dynamics is a very complicated science.
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Here is the best engine shot I have right now, not sure what tins I would be missing.
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The major issues I see that need to be fixed immediately (besides replacing the sled tins):
1) Plug the holes in the fan shroud for the heater hoses. You are wasting massive amounts of cooling air out of those holes. EDIT: if they are not already capped. Hard to tell from the photo if they are open or capped.
2) Plug the two holes in the tin where the heater hoses are supposed to go. It is critically important that the upper half of the engine is isolated from the lower half. This ensures that only cool air from the vents below the rear window is used to cool the engine. If you have gaps in the tin like those or missing bits, then air that has already been heated either by cooling the engine or by being around the exhaust is getting sucked into the cooling fan and cooking your engine. If you can see the ground from inside the engine compartment, you have an overheating problem. There should also be a rubber seal all the way around the engine compartment between the tin and the body to seal the gap. This is also critically important and I can't see from your photo if it's there or missing.
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windfish
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Location: NC
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
Forgot to post this originally -
'74 standard, did the oil filter come normally? I thought they had only the screen from the factory...
I tried to do some research but haven't found an answer yet - why could too much oil cause an issue with the fuel pump? Old oil (overfilled) did not have a noticeable gas smell, car idles fine now but bogs and dies with throttle.
Thanks guys/gals!!
JD |
To answer the oil filter question, yes that's an aftermarket addition. It's a good addition, as you're correct -- stock, these things just had a strainer.
Can you make out a brand on it? I'm a little curious as all the ones I've seen point to the left with the filter on the driver' side (like this).
The oil filter wouldn't be able to do it's job if the filter attachment was on upsidedown.
but yeah, as said your engine will cool best with all it's original tin work.
You can run j-tubes (pic) if you don't need heat and don't want to hook up the heater boxes. |
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Keith
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Joined: August 15, 2005
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Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Ghia spindles are the same as bug spindles so, simply bolting them on does absolutely nothing. What you gain from using Ghoa spindles is disk brakes. No bugs sold in the U.S. came with disks but, Ghia's did.
Now, if you were to bolt Thing spindles on, you would raise it. Those are the only spindles that would bolt on and actually change anything.
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Formerly known in the forums as "OVALTEEN"
"I firmly believe that some villagers from Botswana could probably build a better road than PennDot."- Splitty
"If you do anything to your car someone will hate on you for it. People absolutely love to complain and find fault with others. Don't let it bother you. Just live and have fun."- Lind
Last edited by Keith on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Keith
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Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
I was wondering what the bolts out of case were for... Curious as to how the sled tins help with cooling, wouldn't open air underneath allow for more flow?
Here is the best engine shot I have right now, not sure what tins I would be missing.
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Don't question the tried and true design the VW engineers used for cooling these motors. All those tins are there for a reason and they all work in conjunction with one another. They either funnel cool air in to the shroud, direct cool air to the heads and block, carry it along the heads or allow the hot air to flow out and away from the motor or seal the engine compartment from the outside to keep the cool air in and the hot air out.
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Formerly known in the forums as "OVALTEEN"
"I firmly believe that some villagers from Botswana could probably build a better road than PennDot."- Splitty
"If you do anything to your car someone will hate on you for it. People absolutely love to complain and find fault with others. Don't let it bother you. Just live and have fun."- Lind |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="awreed"]The sled tins direct the heated air out towards the back of the car instead of straight down. They do help keep the engine run as cool as possible. Good idea to put em back on.
quote]
Thanks - didn't mean to seam like I was questioning VW engineering, just trying to understand how...
Bought the car as it is - will invest in the sled tins with my next purchase of parts. |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
1) Plug the holes in the fan shroud for the heater hoses. You are wasting massive amounts of cooling air out of those holes. EDIT: if they are not already capped. Hard to tell from the photo if they are open or capped.
2) Plug the two holes in the tin where the heater hoses are supposed to go. It is critically important that the upper half of the engine is isolated from the lower half. This ensures that only cool air from the vents below the rear window is used to cool the engine. If you have gaps in the tin like those or missing bits, then air that has already been heated either by cooling the engine or by being around the exhaust is getting sucked into the cooling fan and cooking your engine. If you can see the ground from inside the engine compartment, you have an overheating problem. There should also be a rubber seal all the way around the engine compartment between the tin and the body to seal the gap. This is also critically important and I can't see from your photo if it's there or missing. |
The fan shroud heater hoses have been plugged.
Are there plugs for the tin where the heater hoses were?
It "has" the rubber seal, but it's really crap - added to the big picture list. |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| windfish wrote: |
Can you make out a brand on it? I'm a little curious as all the ones I've seen point to the left with the filter on the driver' side (like this).
The oil filter wouldn't be able to do it's job if the filter attachment was on upsidedown.
You can run j-tubes (pic) if you don't need heat and don't want to hook up the heater boxes. |
I cannot see a brand on the filter - is there a way of knowing if this is installed correctly?
I like the look of the j-tubes - I don't need heat exchangers (south Florida and all) - thanks!! |
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awreed
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Posts: 1268
Location: Kirkland, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing sold to plug up the holes in the rear tin. You can either buy a new rear tin piece with no holes or tack weld in your own steel plugs. Or, you could just get creative, i.e. pop rivet beer cans over the holes, whatever. Doesn't need to be perfect, just something to fill in those large holes.
Your engine seal does look to be torn in at least one place. Cheap and easy enough to install. Put that down on the list of jobs the next time your motor is out. Not dangerous to drive around with a slightly torn or dried out engine compartment seal, so don't loose sleep over it.
Also check the front engine compartment seal to ensure it's in decent condition as well. |
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Chochobeef
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Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
Are there plugs for the tin where the heater hoses were?
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Goto a Home Depot and find some of these. They should be in the HVAC area. They can seal up those holes. |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:13 pm Post subject: Fix for loss of power |
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Great idea, thanks Chochobeef
Found the fix for the loss of power under throttle - the Accelerator pump injector was clogged, with throttle air was coming though but no gas which caused the engine to die.
What I need to figure out now is why/how crap got to my recently cleaned carb. Fuel has a "rust" colored look to it. What is the best way to seal the inside of the tank? (The car sat for 1 1/2-2 years running only occasionally, I've already emptied the tank) |
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Dodgy
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pb_foots
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Location: Ben Lomond, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Smorgasbord of sorts... |
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| jdnizzle wrote: |
Now to my real problem - messed with the distributor timing at idle a little, by sound(do not have a dwell or timing gun).
JD |
You need to get a timing light, or at least a 12v test lamp, and time your engine properly. It's not going to run right without correct timing. Although you can usually get it close by ear you'll see a marked improvement by setting it to the correct spec. You can get one for next to nothing at your local NAPA or something.
A cheap dwell meter is also a big help. I have noticed that my point gap is quite different when setting dwell instead of using point gap only. Focus on the timing light first though. |
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jdnizzle
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Joined: April 10, 2015
Posts: 57
Location: North Port, FL
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Continued to have issues with power under load - tore apart the fuel system to clean it.
Tank was surprisingly clean inside, air compressor to clean out the little bit of gunk I saw, blew out the hard line through the tunnel, tore the carb apart and cleaned it, took the pump off and cleaned it up (it was impossible to find the gaskets needed locally, ended up making them myself). Put everything back together, fired up after getting the lines/pump primed. Drove her around the neighborhood (about 2 miles) with out issue.
Hopefully tomorrow I can take her again on her first maiden voyage to the gas station (6 miles round trip). |
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