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Radios - Speakers and Decisions
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julesmast
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Radios - Speakers and Decisions Reply with quote

So I have been browsing the boards reading all of the topics on radios, granted they are a personal preference, however I would love to get some of you to chime in if you want.

I thought I wanted to go with the retrosound radio that looks "true to the time" for my 1968 Beetle BUT.. I have to say the bluetooth features on other radios makes it real tempting to go another direction.

What brand / type radio's do a lot of you have? What is the easiest kind for a noob to hookup and not have to do a lot of extra work?

I am looking at the fiberglass kick panels for some speakers. Can you tell me if there are pros/cons to those vs mounting speakers in the back? I was thinking about mounting some below the rear seat but not sure..

Any opinions on what kind of speakers to use that are easy to hook up and have good sound?

Thanks!
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do search out all of your options before cutting up stuff. Speakers in the door factory hole, honestly skip that due to the interference with the window winder.
This company may have what you are looking for.
http://www.glass-action.com/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 69 bug came with an aftermarket stereo and 6.5" speaker panels in the front kick panels... no bluetooth but aux and USB... I have a bt to aux adaptor I just plug into the USB for power and it's like having BT...

I love it and hate it.

My plan is to put a stock radio in (maybe even make it work with the stock speaker). But only for looks.

For real sound it will be one of those nice little portable BT speaker pods that I just take with me and use my phone for sounds. I have both a little JBL one and a newer set from Monster (that I use for my outdoor theater) that put out MUCH better sound than any 6.5" coaxials will with the measly power from a stock head unit will.

You get the benefit of stock look and better sound that a stock system, even with those horrible kick panels that you rub your foot on when using the clutch.

BTW.. looking for a stock radio for a 79 vert. Smile
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OLD VW NUT
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forget who makes those little fiberglass panels that mount speakers in the kick panels but you could get a pair of 3.5" speakers and mount them on those panels - then get a small 'sub' - something about 8" or so. It won't make a boom box out of your car but it will help with the low end of sound. One of my 'hobbies' is home stereo and home theater. I've learned a few thing about sound. Any sounds from about 100hz and down tend to be non-localized - meaning you hear the sound but it is difficult to tell where it comes from. A small amp mounted behind the back seat with the sub would be out of sight.

Bugs are a tough car to place a good sound system into. But the way I see it is if the car has a nice running motor thats what you want to hear anyway. I know I'd rather listen to the engine noises in my Ghia - I have a blue tooth ready radio installed but have yet to install the two Infinity amps and a pair of 3 way 6x9 coaxial Infinity speakers - and I have a 10" Infinity sub to install - it gets the second amp. I'll get around to it - once I get tired of hearing the motor. It might be a while before I get those speakers connected.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this one:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/becker-mexico-hi-tech-retro
http://www.becker-mexico-retro.de/en/

BECKER AUTOSOUND, LLC
Edward Ebel
101 US HWY 46 W 2nd Floor
Saddle Brook, NJ 07663

Tel.: +1 201 7 73 09 76
email: service(at)beckerautosound.com
web: www.beckerautosound.com
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sb001
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, speakers in the door panels-- at least where the holes that seem like they are specifically for speakers are cut into the sheet metal of the doors-- are right below the window cranks and interfere with them. Which begs the question, what precisely are those holes cut into the door sheet metal for, if not for speakers? (As far as I know no beetle came with speakers installed in those holes in the door- they were all single speakers mounted behind the dash next to the speedo.) Speakers in bug doors will also rattle the inevitable loose metal parts of the door.

Speakers mounted in the kick panel below the rear seat is possibly the worst location for mounting speakers in the history of speaker installation- even if you want to use the excuse that a bug is one of the worst cars for listening to a stereo in so what does it matter. What other car EVER mounted speakers there? Not only will anyone riding in the back seat damage them with their heels, but they are aimed nowhere close to your listening position wherever you are in the car. Terrible location.

The best solution overall, is:

a. Component speaker system in front, with mids in kick panels, and tweeters mounted on dash or on doors out of the way of the window winder

b. You can get away with coaxial speakers in the rear, mounted in the quarter panel cards, which is helped by the addition of acoustical damping material (polyfill) stuffed behind the panel, which will also help with automotive sound deadening.

c. I personally don't prefer taking up the space behind the back seat with stereo equipment or anything else, but it's an OK (and easy) solution for a sub box with amp(s) mounted on the side(s) out of the way. My personal preference would be a single 8" long throw shallow mount sub under the driver's side of the rear seat, since as stated above low frequency sound is fairly omnidirectional (a 9" x 9" box with a port for low end extension should fit under there, and you can countersink the sub inside the box so it doesn't protrude.) Amps can then go wherever you can find space for them (I believe the front seats sit high enough where shallower amps could be mounted underneath without much risk of overheating due to lack of air circulation.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go for the aftermarket kick panels for speakers.

Does anyone still make external mount speakers? I use those from about 35 years ago.
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julesmast
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
Yes, speakers in the door panels-- at least where the holes that seem like they are specifically for speakers are cut into the sheet metal of the doors-- are right below the window cranks and interfere with them. Which begs the question, what precisely are those holes cut into the door sheet metal for, if not for speakers? (As far as I know no beetle came with speakers installed in those holes in the door- they were all single speakers mounted behind the dash next to the speedo.) Speakers in bug doors will also rattle the inevitable loose metal parts of the door.

Speakers mounted in the kick panel below the rear seat is possibly the worst location for mounting speakers in the history of speaker installation- even if you want to use the excuse that a bug is one of the worst cars for listening to a stereo in so what does it matter. What other car EVER mounted speakers there? Not only will anyone riding in the back seat damage them with their heels, but they are aimed nowhere close to your listening position wherever you are in the car. Terrible location.

The best solution overall, is:

a. Component speaker system in front, with mids in kick panels, and tweeters mounted on dash or on doors out of the way of the window winder

b. You can get away with coaxial speakers in the rear, mounted in the quarter panel cards, which is helped by the addition of acoustical damping material (polyfill) stuffed behind the panel, which will also help with automotive sound deadening.

c. I personally don't prefer taking up the space behind the back seat with stereo equipment or anything else, but it's an OK (and easy) solution for a sub box with amp(s) mounted on the side(s) out of the way. My personal preference would be a single 8" long throw shallow mount sub under the driver's side of the rear seat, since as stated above low frequency sound is fairly omnidirectional (a 9" x 9" box with a port for low end extension should fit under there, and you can countersink the sub inside the box so it doesn't protrude.) Amps can then go wherever you can find space for them (I believe the front seats sit high enough where shallower amps could be mounted underneath without much risk of overheating due to lack of air circulation.)




I totally agree with you about speakers in the rear kick panel - my first thought when exploring that option was the fact that they would be kicked by a rear passenger and most likely damaged or dirty. I have kids that will probably want to take a ride with me once we are up and running so I can see the rear kick panels as being a very bad idea.

I would like to keep the rear trunk area easily accessible so I can stow bags in there if I go on a quick run to the store so I am torn on mounting a speaker back there. I realize you would still have that space but I don't know if it will be hard to get to it.

I will look into some of the other ideas posted here and continue some research. My bug is still being worked on, but I thought it might be smart to get all of the wiring / speakers and stuff installed before I put everything back together. My dash pad is off now along with the fresh air box so it just seems like a good time to start working on these options.

Keep the comments coming and I love to see pictures of your setups as well Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:

Speakers mounted in the kick panel below the rear seat is possibly the worst location for mounting speakers in the history of speaker installation- even if you want to use the excuse that a bug is one of the worst cars for listening to a stereo in so what does it matter. What other car EVER mounted speakers there? Not only will anyone riding in the back seat damage them with their heels, but they are aimed nowhere close to your listening position wherever you are in the car. Terrible location.


Disagree, under the rear seat works alright.
No other car make does it because the engineers get to properly design where the speakers go. There's really only a few places in a bug, none of them all that great. (btw, I don't think I've seen factory mounted front kickpanels either)

The "what does it matter" part is true though. Because serio, after a certain point (which comes up very quickly) it just doesn't matter.
Wind, road, and engine noise are tough in a bug.

Initially I put my speakers below the rear seat as a temp thing, easy placement and it got me a working radio (factory speaker placement taken over by a tach). But I'm happy with it, it actually sounds better than you'd expect. More than acceptable for radio use.
Pic - (link)

Damage wise, /shrug. Depends what speakers you put back there, mine have a protective metal mesh that seems decent enough. Would hold up to someone leaning their shoes against it, though a kick would dent it.
Not an issue for me, no rear seat = no rear passengers (except my two pups).


Receiver wise, if you're willing to pay for a RetroSound go for it. It seems like they get decent reviews, just a little on the high side price wise. There are models with bluetooth integration, depending on what feature you're looking for.

I also like GArBa's install - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7655181
Clean and simple, though you'll have to cut a larger hole in your dash
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julesmast
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on some other users posts I was looking into this radio if I don't go with the retrosound. Anyone have good/bad/ugly input about this model?


http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/receiver/kdc-bt318u/
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RetroSound units will slide right into an unmodified dash.

That Kenwood (and units like it) require that you cut the radio's opening a bit wider in order to fit, which makes it difficult to return to a stock dash at a later date.
If this doesn't bother you, hey, it's your car.
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julesmast
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

windfish wrote:
The RetroSound units will slide right into an unmodified dash.

That Kenwood (and units like it) require that you cut the radio's opening a bit wider in order to fit, which makes it difficult to return to a stock dash at a later date.
If this doesn't bother you, hey, it's your car.


Good to know - I really don't want to cut the metal on it - I might just go with retrosound after all!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

windfish wrote:
The RetroSound units will slide right into an unmodified dash.

That Kenwood (and units like it) require that you cut the radio's opening a bit wider in order to fit, which makes it difficult to return to a stock dash at a later date.
If this doesn't bother you, hey, it's your car.



Regarding wiring - are speakers and radios hard to hook up and run the wires for?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always go with the suitcase stereo setup in the back seat. Radio, Amp, and speakers all together.
Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danpa wrote:
You could always go with the suitcase stereo setup in the back seat. Radio, Amp, and speakers all together.
Dan


I have seen that posted - it looks really cute but again if I do that the backseat won't be available if I want to take some of my kids for a cruise.

Are there any other retro radios that would fit the original space other than retrosound? They are cool looking but the price is double others that offer more features.. Shocked
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

julesmast wrote:
Danpa wrote:
You could always go with the suitcase stereo setup in the back seat. Radio, Amp, and speakers all together.
Dan


I have seen that posted - it looks really cute but again if I do that the backseat won't be available if I want to take some of my kids for a cruise.

Are there any other retro radios that would fit the original space other than retrosound? They are cool looking but the price is double others that offer more features.. Shocked


I installed an amp on the floor under the passenger side seat and ran wires under the carpet and rear bench into the luggage compartment at the back. I had a 10" sub-woofer already built into a small box that fit nicely in the center of the luggage compartment. I just welded up a steel box to fit on top and hold two 5.25" two-way speakers to project forward over the rear seat.

The whole thing is powered by relay off the battery triggered by the ignition power and I added a switch in the glove box to control the amplifier "remote" signal.

I just jack my phone directly into the amp inputs right now but I plan to get one of these eventially:
http://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Boat-Stereo-Receiver-Adaptor-Converter-Receiver-Dongle/dp/B00JAPZRH2

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I really like this implementation because it's self-contained, required no permanent alteration to the car, and is easily removable. I was amazed at how good the sound quality turned out to be too.

Cheers
Paul
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a few speaker setups on those under dash package trays that look pretty good. A friend of mine did this with his 67 years ago - had them connected to his 8 track - hey! It was the 'in' thing back in the day. I think those were 4x6" coaxial. He built a small ported wooden box for them - you can buy enclosures these days. It didn't have much in the way of low frequency sounds but it was better than nothing.

You might look into putting a small sub under either front seat. I know there are many audio companies make them for small cars. I doubt you'll need more than an 8" sub - a 6" isn't going to get down very low. I'm not a big fan of Boss car audio - just throwing this out for an example of what can be found.

http://www.amazon.com/BOSS-Audio-BASS800-Amplified...+subwoofer

These are 14 x 9.9 x 3 inch dimensions. Should fit under a seat.

Edit: Found this pic in the gallery - looks like there is plenty of room for a pair of speakers. Maybe you could install the radio head unit there too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another crazy idea I had was...

A box that would be about 4" thick x 6" tall x 12" wide. Located in front of the shifter. It would be mounted on top of the tunnel like a console.
The speakers could face in opposite directions, toward the doors. Maybe have tweeters facing up.
Since it would be the same width as the tunnel, and be only 6" tall, it probably wouldn't take up much space.

Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I originally built my 69, I didn't want to cut the dash so I installed a marine stereo in the trunk and ran the wired remote to the dash.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I also put Alpine speakers on a tray in the back and also on kick panels in the front.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I sold the bug in '10. Fast forward to '15 and I was able to buy my bug back. In the meantime, one of the PO's cut the dash and installed a pioneer unit. In retrospect, if I had to do it over again, I would have cut the dash and installed it myself. I just think it looks clean and that's where it belongs. It's a tight fit and you have to be careful of the wiper wires. The PO who installed the unit messed up the wiring and I had to fix it, but I had put a new harness in originally, so no big deal. I hated the Pioneer (cheap walmart unit), so I installed this Alpine unit:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/alpine-built-in-blueto...Id=5573031
As you can tell, I really like Alpine! I wanted bluetooth and no CD player. Without the CD player, I was hoping the unit would be somewhat shorter, but alas, it is not. Not a deal breaker. I had installed second skin throughout the car, luggage tray, roof, etc. so I don't need a lot of volume when driving. Very Nice.
I guess what it really comes down to is do you want to cut the dash or not? I don't think it's a big deal and my head unit comes off if I'm ever worried about theft.
In a bug, you really only have to worry about 3 wires. The ground, one that goes to a fuse that's only on when the key is on and one that is constantly on for memory. The assessory fuse on the far left (trunk view) that's used for a cigarette lighter is perfect for that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking to Ralph today at Glass Action for my front kick panels and he wast telling me about their console and under the ashtray stereo mounter..

Have any of you used these? Do you have any opinions? I really want to keep the car looking somewhat true to its time but I am having a hard time with $300 on a radio just for the looks, at least for now. That money can go towards a lot of other things. I am kind of leaning towards the smaller mount under the ashtray for now but still not 100% sure..


This is the console:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




This is the mount:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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