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Backed into a corner: Time to install Engine and Trans
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Backed into a corner: Time to install Engine and Trans Reply with quote

So, I'm getting ready to install the engine and transmission and could use some advice. My small garage affords little-to-no room to move around. The engine is presently sitting like so:

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Rear of the engine is close to the workbench and front of the engine has a small gap by the bumper. The rear of car is up on ramps.

1) Should I put the front of the car on ramps as well to level out the car for the install?

2) Raising the engine and transmission is going to require lifting a lot of metal in the air. So, I'm thinking that if I take that route, I'll lower the engine (with no muffler), connect transmission to engine. I'll have to literally sit under the engine 'hole' in car and install the trans there. Than, place a 2nd jack under trans. Roll the entire works under the car and slowly raise together and hope for the best.

3) Or, given my limited space, raise transmission as close to it's fastening points as possible, raise engine, connect together, put on hangers and adjust according to Ray's 'article' on drivetrain alignment.

I wish I had more room, but it is what it is. I really wanted this VW and trying to do the right thing prior to driving it, so I don't ruin the car. I can clearly see I goofed on my space calculation. Embarassed

Any feedback/suggestions would be appreciated! -Ron
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is better to raise the front similar to the rear. I would def. put the transmission in first & then the engine using 2 jacks.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do it both ways as Mike noted......but...having had engines in and out of 411 and 412...maybe 75 times...no kidding Laughing ....I will tell you my preffered method.

1. Leave the front on the ground...lift the rear enough for the lower rear sheet metal valance to clear the engine with the oil funnel and dip stick removed (mainly for sedan folks)....so ...about 1/2"-3/4" over the highest point of the engine.

2. This is dependent upon what type of trolley jack you have it on and how low it can go. I have found that making a large plate or block of wood to even out the weight distribution and placing it on the jack end by removing teh little turn table and bolting the wood plate to the end of the jack. make it about 12" wide and 18" long of double layer, crisscrossed 1" x 4" works well.

Bearing in mind that the cheap trolley floor jacks will not have enough reach to get this thing all the way up.

So the rear needs to be lifted high enough to clear your engine , sitting on the wood plate...on the floor jack.


3. You need to have something very sturdy like milk crates or cinder blocks, or stacks of 2" x 10" wood.... hand to put under each heat exchanger for when you get the engine package off the ground about 8-10", Then lower the jack and put about 4-5" of wood block 2" x 10" on top of the wood plate.....and start lifting again. In this manner....you have a better safe range and not near maxed out for the floor jack.

4. In my opinion...its always much better on the 411 and 412 to install the trans and engine package together. You will not have to later ...fight with lining up the torque converter bolts, risking dropping the torque converter and pulling you pump drive shaft out, disturbing its seal etc.......also...something the type 3 does not have is the upper hanger bushings that need to be guided in.

While the upper hanger bushings are simpler guide when its transmission only...all else is a big headache especially on the wagons.

Keeping the front end of the car on the ground leaves an angle at the rear that makes guiding the drivetrain package in easier.

You will need to set up a single small block of wood on the wood plate that tilts the transmission tailcone up just a few degrees. With this...you can jack things up until you can slide the tail cone bushing into the hole in the rear cross member. Once that happens...with the car chassis tilted...you can slide the whole package forward while watching the depth of the bushing in the cross member hole. When the bushing plate is about 1/4" from the cross member....begin lifting with the jack again.

This also allows you to observe the upper bushings being guided into the middle cross member.

The things you will need to take time to set up...is getting the drivetrain package off the ground...so you can get the jack underneath it, get the whole package balanced fore and aft and left and right...the jack centered on the car....and the wheels of the jack centered so it trolls straight.

I usually start....by lifting up one side of the engine just high enough to insert a block of 2" x 10" about 1 foot long under a heat exchanger. then do the other side.....then come back and repeat..stacking another board on top of the first.

When you get about 3 or 4 boards under each side.....you can slide the floor jack with the board mounted to it. The 18" length goes long way on the trans.

Jack the engine up off the wood blocks...make note if it tips forward, back or die to side. Lower it back to the blocks and adjust jack position. Do this until its fairly stable.

Hopefully you start this process fairly well centered on the rear of the car. If not....you need to move the jack and motor package in and out to slew it around until its lined up. Then take a hammer and tap the rear swivel wheels on the jack around until they roll straight.

Now you are ready to start. Ray
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ClassicCamper
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great! Thank you all very much. I'm hoping to have another 412 on the road soon. When it was delivered to me, it's top speed was about 40 MPH floored, despite the PO posting a Youtube of it driving around town. It's all good, this baby is in good hands. I'll keep you posted as to how the process goes. Armed with this much information, I am going to install the engine and transmission together in one unit, as both suggested.

The fact that Ray installed these things so many times, speaks for itself. My plan of attack is to print the instructions out and and read it more critically.

Once I'm confident that the drivetrain is ready to go in, I'll use Ray's (well, part of it) drivetrain alignment procedure to make sure the rubber tail cone bushing is located correctly in the middle. (I think there was a 10mm and 12mm adjustment procedure).

The transmission has no hypoid or ATF in it since the rebuild. Are there any filling tips outside the very limited information my Clymer and Haynes book has?

Feeling more confident and ready to go! Thanks again. -Ron
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just DON'T forget the hypoid oil!

The best way is to get everything on level ground. Get some good quality hypoid oil. You can buy straight 90 at NAPA...80w-90 will work fine.

You can use Castrol Hypoy C or Valvoline. Sta-Lube is goood also...but just make sure whatever you use is for HYPOID gears on the bottle.

Your final drive on the automatic is a hypoid, off-axis skew bevel. Different than normal skew bevel four speeds (except for the type 4 004 manual transmission and some others).

Sta.Lube also makes a nice gear oil pump (about $10) that fits their square bottle tops and many others. It makes it easier to fill the trans.

Fill through the filler hole slowly until it begins to flow back out. The first time it back-flows on you let it sit and then check with your finger and keep track of how much you put in...so you dont get a false reading and fill it with too little. Ray
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