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After new carb install, no start
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:41 am    Post subject: After new carb install, no start Reply with quote

Hi,

I just finished my installed of empi 34 EPC dual carb kit and the car won't start.
So far what I have figured out is that there is fuel coming out the carbs nozzles and there is 12V at the coil. The spark plug wires are installed correctly. And the distributor hasn't been changed since the new carbs installation. The car ran fine before the tear down. The only thing I haven't hooked-up is the vacuum port of the distributor. But that should cause the no start.
What could be the problem?
Thank you for your help.

Sven

PS: Oops forgot to mention it's a 1974 Super beetle with stock 1600 engine
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GAs flowing check
Spark at the plugs check
Timing set close check

Are you getting any backfiring?
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Frank Bassman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you connect the power wire to the fuel cutoff solenoid in the carb?
Did you do a preliminary setup of the carb?

If not, turn the two adjustment screws in all the way (carefully)
Turn out the small screw three turns.
Turn out the big screw 2 1/2 turns.
See if it starts then.

Are you getting fuel in the bowl? If not, check if the needle valve that lets fuel in or not is not working as it should and is stuck closed. (Doubt it.)
(If you smell gas while cranking, you probably have fuel in the bowl, that's how you discard that possibility.)

If it doesn't start, take out the idle jet and see if it is obstructed with casting debris. (doubt it.)

If that doesn't help, see if the main jet is obstructed.[bottom of the bowl, disassembly required. (doubt it.)


When I bought my EMPI carb, I took it apart for inspection prior to use. I found nothing but good things about it when I did. Even came with extra jets. I hope your issue is a small one! Report back with findings.

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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thank you for your replies.

I did check if I have a spark. I used nr 2 & 4 wires separately to check for spark and yes i do have it. I also have 12V at the coil.

I do not get backfire, because I don't get the engine to ignite. What I do get after cranking a short time is build up pressure that gets relieved with a popping sound.

Did you connect the power wire to the fuel cutoff solenoid in the carb? YES
Did you do a preliminary setup of the carb? YES

I am getting fuel. I check it. There is fuel flowing out of the curved tube inside the carb.

Thank you for your help.

Sven
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metsven wrote:
What I do get after cranking a short time is build up pressure that gets relieved with a popping sound.

Sure sounds like mixed up plug wires.
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to make sure. When I go counter clock wise on the distributor cap, I have no 1 around the condensor screw. Then 2 3 4. The tin ware around my engine has the numbers stamped on it with nr 1 at the rear right then nr 2 at the front right. On the left side back I have nr 3 and in front nr 4. This is all correct, right?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct firing order is 1-4-3-2. Clockwise is correct.

Cylinders are numbered.....

FRONT
3 1
4 2
REAR

If you put the engine at TDC using the pulley, you are either at TDC for #1 or TDC for #3.


Last edited by Randy in Maine on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

That's how it's hooked up. I checked the points gap and adjusted to within specs, but still no start.
I am clueless at the moment. I have spark and I have fuel coming in, but no starting engine.

Sven
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metsven wrote:
Just to make sure. When I go counter clock wise on the distributor cap, I have no 1 around the condensor screw.

Only you can determine if that's really #1 TDC, distributor drives often get installed wrong.
Remove all the plugs except the RF (#1) and turn the engine by hand until you start to feel compression, watch the pulley and stop when it's at the TDC mark. Now put the wire from that (#1) cylinder in whatever hole in the cap is over where the rotor is currently pointing, then #4 wire in the next hole clockwise, then #3 and finally #2, put the plugs back in and see what happens.
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thank you for that tip. But I was only referring to how the wires where connected. The car ran before and the distributor cap was only removed, with the wires still connected.

Sven
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

metsven wrote:
I have no 1 around the condensor screw. Then 2 3 4.


It should be 1-4-3-2 clockwise.

The distributor cap really only fits one way correctly.


Last edited by Randy in Maine on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I think you are mistaken by that.
Fire order is 1 4 3 2, but it goes clock wise. Counter clock wise you get 1 2 3 4.
[/img]
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The distributor turns clockwise, 1432 is what you need, maybe Randy is viewing the cap from below? Very Happy

So you are satisfied with the wires and order, are the plugs wet?, if not what happens when you put a spoonfull of gas down the carb?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed

I am baking a chocolate birthday cake for a 3 year old while posting on the Samba. Not a good mix.
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metsven
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do hope you save a piece for me, LOL.

All your advice is appreciated.
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metsven
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Passenger side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Driver side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just as a side note. The installation video and instruction manual, don't show how they install and adjust the driver side. I ended up with the passenger side (top picture) where I can adjust the speed screw like the instruction says. But the driver side (bottom picture) is so far away from the base, even when the screw is fully screwed in. It still doesn't touch it. I tried to bring it up with adjusting the linkage down rod, but that didn't help.
May this be the reason why the car doesn't start?[/img]
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Mikedrevguy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is missed in this video is that the speed screws should initially be set up with linkage disconnected, then match the linkage to that. Not sure if this is the video you've got, but carb adjustment starts at 14min
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d6RGWScIG3E
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start with the basics. Walk through Speedy Jim's steps here:
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm

Don't skip anything. Walk through the whole troubleshooting process.
Like Speedy Jim says,
"Well, it takes 3 things for an engine to run:
    Compression
    Air/Fuel mixture
    Spark
"

Determine which one you are missing and you will figure out why it is not running.

Good luck
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metsven
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Thank you for all the replies. The information that I found about the spark plug wires order was that the connection at the distributor cap goes as following, looking from above (I thought this was standard)
3 2
4 1

We all know the cylinder positions:
3 1
4 2

Following the previous tip. I put the engine at TDC. But the rotor wasn't pointing to 1, but 2.
So, I changed the wires to

2 1
3 4

Now the car starts, without any issues.

But I am still puzzled with the speed screw of my driver side carb. I will try to adjust it without the linkage attached and then reconnect. Also from a previous tip. Let's hope that makes it all working correctly.
Next on the list is the Pertronix distributor, breather box, front suspension and sway bar.
Sucks to be out for a month, instead of driving.

Thank you all for your help.

Sven
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cletus_zuber
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

metsven wrote:
Passenger side
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Put the return spring on the Right side bolt of the bracket, has no bearing on your no start issues, but will return the throttle to idle better...
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