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Frank'nbug
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Beaverton, OR
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 Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: Beating the Wiper Motor Wiring again |
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| I have a 1970 Beetle that has been Baja converted. Wiper motor went bad. I bought a replacement, says 1972 and up. Wiring does NOT match diagram. HELP |
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Brian
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Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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So you have a '70 and bought a replacement for a '72+?
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'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
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1970VWGUY
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Joined: September 15, 2013
Posts: 864
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Does it mount up correctly? |
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Joel
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Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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72 and later have a totally different wiring layout as they are designed for the steering column stalk style switch not the dash switch.
High and low speed wire up as normal but the self parking can't be wired up without adding a relay and altering the wiring.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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Frank'nbug
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Beaverton, OR
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The original motor was small with one mounting bolt. I salvaged a newer bracket out of a '71. It bolts up correctly and everything looks correct. I am just trying to get the wiring to work. I had one motor (new), hooked it up like the wiring said to do and shorted out the motor, frying the black wire and almost causing a fire. Melted several wires. Returned the motor and now it says for '72 and up. It has four wires (black, green, blue, red) in a terminal and a brown loose. Any help would be great. Last thing to get completed to get it (Baja) on the road. |
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1970VWGUY
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2013
Posts: 864
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Are there any numbers where the wires come out? |
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don't_bug_me
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Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 852
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| Frank'nbug wrote: |
| The original motor was small with one mounting bolt. I salvaged a newer bracket out of a '71. It bolts up correctly and everything looks correct. I am just trying to get the wiring to work. I had one motor (new), hooked it up like the wiring said to do and shorted out the motor, frying the black wire and almost causing a fire. Melted several wires. Returned the motor and now it says for '72 and up. It has four wires (black, green, blue, red) in a terminal and a brown loose. Any help would be great. Last thing to get completed to get it (Baja) on the road. |
That motor isn't from a bug, any year that I can find, wrong wiring colors, Like Joel said, later wiper motors require a relay, latching relay I believe to function properly, I believe they are wired internally different.
You may still be able to use it, but not sure if the parking wiper mechanism can be used properly without a lot of additional mods to your electrical system with the fore mentioned relays, but, test the wiring on the motor prior to installation, some color coding should remain the same, such as, brown is ground, black will be your main power to the motor, not positive now on the remaining 3, green is most likely the latching wire circuit for later model vw's, the other two switch the motors input from low to high speed.
Get some wires and test first, once you figure out which wires do what, you might be able to hook them up to your 70 wiring, but again, if it is wired internally different, you may have to park it manually by shutting them off in the lowered position, I'd get an older wiper motor and have it done right, but experiment with what you have off the car, as not to cause additional electrical problems.
edit;
in fact, I just checked the wiring colors from everything from of vw type 1 to a thing, and no wiper motor colors match to that one any year.
it's aftermarket or who knows what it's from.
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"Necessity is the mother of invention" |
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Frank'nbug
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Beaverton, OR
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well to put this to bed. I have spent the last three evenings after work at the parts store working the store manager to figure out the wiring for the wiper motors they sell for '70 and '72 & up beetle.
The first night he hooked the later model ('70) up like the wiring diagram shows and it fried the motor just like the first one that I had.
So, the second night he hooked up the '72 motor, got it to work, but not self park. No problem.
The third night, he hooked up another later model motor and couldn't get it to turn at all. (really tight, even with a rachet)
So, three nights, still no wiper motor. STILL NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trying to get another motor - might have to use the small "loaf" size later model instead.
Thanks for the discussion.
Frank'nbug
1970 Baja |
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don't_bug_me
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Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 852
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Frank'nbug wrote: |
1) The first night he hooked the later model ('70) up like the wiring diagram shows and it fried the motor just like the first one that I had.
2) So, the second night he hooked up the '72 motor, got it to work, but not self park. No problem.
3) The third night, he hooked up another later model motor and couldn't get it to turn at all. (really tight, even with a rachet)
Thanks for the discussion.
Frank'nbug
1970 Baja |
Sounds like either your extremely frustrated, or don't want any additional help...
1) sounds like you have some wiring issues, I'd double check everything before you continue burning up wiper motors, may have been why the first one failed, especially look into the switch.
2) exactly as I and Joel said
3) moot point
If you don't wish any ADDITIONAL HELP....GOOD LUCK
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1970VWGUY
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Joined: September 15, 2013
Posts: 864
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| What's the original part number for that motor.... |
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1970VWGUY
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Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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don't_bug_me
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1970VWGUY
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Joined: September 15, 2013
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Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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mbjeeper
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I have a similar problem. I am working on a car that someone has installed a later model (appears to be '72 up standard Beetle) into a 1965, which has been converted to 12 volts, and appears to be using a '67 wiper switch.
Both speeds work fine, but, alas, no park feature. He would like to have the wipers park where they should.
I have read in my searches that it can be done with some wiring changes and possibly the addition of a relay, but I haven't seen how this can be accomplished.
This is one of the last issues on this car and I'd like to get it straightened out so he can have his car back while there is still some summer left.
Any and all help appreciated...
Greg |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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The problem with the self park system, up thru 1971, the switch was grounded and provided a ground path for the self park system. This ground was dropped for the redesigned wiper system in 72. Also, the 67-71 setup, the wiper motor gets all of its power from the switch. The 72-up style, the wiper motor always has one power lead "hot". So quite different wiring setups.
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Joel
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Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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The positive self parking system came out in 72 so the intermittent option worked
it was an option in some markets and became standard on a few models
| mbjeeper wrote: |
I have read in my searches that it can be done with some wiring changes and possibly the addition of a relay, but I haven't seen how this can be accomplished. |
Here you go.
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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Hyperspace
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mbjeeper
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help, guys. I will try to wire in the relay and see what I get...
Greg
13-14, maybe 15 air cooleds... |
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mbjeeper
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Joined: October 13, 2003
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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For anyone wondering or checking into this thread later, Joel's diagram with the relay above does work beautifully.
If I remember correctly, the only impediment to putting a later ('72 up) wiper system into a '67 and earlier car is that the holes in the cowl have to be enlarged just a little, and you need to make up a support bracket.
Seems to me the above diagram would be the hot ticket for updating a 6 volt car, as the '72 up wiper motors seem to be pretty common and cheap.
Again, thanks for the info!
Greg |
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Tenor66
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Joined: April 04, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Hello Everyone!
I'm pulling up this old thread to ask if any of you experts have some advice for me. I'm trying to wire up a replacement wiper motor that I purchased from CIP along with a 68-71 Beetle switch that I also bought from CIP. The numbers on the back of the switch seem like they should simply correspond with the numbers on the motor assembly, but when I turn the switch on, the fuse blows. Side note: when I tried following the instructions for 'parking the motor' prior to assembly, the motor turns over just fine on the respective low or high possibilities. So, I know the motor is good. I'm wiring #30 to fused power and #31 to ground.
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Martin---
'72 1302 |
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