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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:17 pm Post subject: They say the only stupid question... |
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...is the unasked question, so here goes. After years of being a Type 3 "STOCK" kinda guy, I want to kick up my heels and build a sleeper. So, my question is this: I've located a set of Porsche 912 domed P&Cs that are 86mm. The standard replacement pistons for my 1966 Type 34 1600 engine are 85.5MM. Is it possible to fit the Porsche domed piston/ cyls to this engine? I'm sure a little machining is in order, What about deck height? I know I'll have to run Super Premium, but is this doable in an otherwise stock engine?
OR, should I be asking in the Hi Performance forum?
I'm interested in hearing the T3 community's input.
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: Re: They say the only stupid question... |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
...is the unasked question, so here goes. After years of being a Type 3 "STOCK" kinda guy, I want to kick up my heels and build a sleeper. So, my question is this: I've located a set of Porsche 912 domed P&Cs that are 86mm. The standard replacement pistons for my 1966 Type 34 1600 engine are 85.5MM. Is it possible to fit the Porsche domed piston/ cyls to this engine? I'm sure a little machining is in order, What about deck height? I know I'll have to run Super Premium, but is this doable in an otherwise stock engine?
OR, should I be asking in the Hi Performance forum?
I'm interested in hearing the T3 community's input. |
it isn't April 1, so who the hell is this?
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tomnotch
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Joined: October 22, 2004
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Location: Key Peninsula, Wash.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:00 am Post subject: |
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the cost and slight hassle of making them work isn't worth it imho. Just put some 90.5s in it and set the comp. around 7.5 ish and have fun.
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Russ Wolfe
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Joined: October 08, 2004
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Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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I agree wwith Tom, I don't think it is worth it. Go with the 90.5's and a set of dual ports and go for it.
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ibjack
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Joined: February 06, 2002
Posts: 2105
Location: Imperial Beach CA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I once had a set of P&C's that were the 2nd oversize size. They were 85.96 or something like that. I'mpossible to find rings for them, though. Maybe you could find a freak set of these cylinders and go from there.
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TheDDB
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2003
Posts: 752
Location: Type 3 Central - Portland OR -
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: They say the only stupid question... |
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[quote="[email protected]"]...: I've located a set of Porsche 912 domed P&Cs that are 86mm. The standard replacement pistons for my 1966 Type 34 1600 engine are 85.5MM. Is it possible to fit the Porsche domed piston/ cyls to this engine? I'm sure a little machining is in order, What about deck height? quote]
Ok I belive that the 86's you have would slip in with no machine work needed. If the domed piston has an over all height of more than a stock T3 domed piston then the deck height will be something to consider.
I havent seen a porsche piston vs a Vw in a side to side referance to say what the difference might be...
But if the 86 needs machine work then go for the 90.5.....
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73notch
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Many thanks for the input. Blankie, no it isn't 1. April. Keep in mind though, that THE CAR WILL STILL HAVE THE CORRECT BUMPERS, just in case anyone is curious. 
Cost won't be an object IF I decide to do this- I can get the p&c set for almost nothing from someone who owes me. The reason I was looking at these is because they're DOMED, so the .5 MM will give a lot more kick than you'd think. Maybe I'm old school, but I really don't want to machine much off the case if I can avoid it. Also, the reliabilty factor is something else that concerns me- I can build this engine with ALL NOS German parts for one thing- (I have an inherent suspicion of aftermarket "performance" parts, sorry!), and second, I don't like the reliability/ longevity complaints that seem to plague "built" engines. What I'm after is a reliable daily driver here, just with slightly bigger balls! Having a lot of experience in 356/ 912 resto/ repair, I know that those engines are about bulletproof.
I should have added that I'm going 12v conversion on this, AND going dualport with Type 3 injection, as well.
Sounds like deck height is my most pressing issue. If anyone has info on that, I'd like to hear it. My original plan was to go 1500S lower end and P&C's with dual port heads and injection, but in doing the math, it almost seems I'd be just as well off to hang the DPs and injection on the original 1966 1600 that came in the car. Then, my buddy mentioned that he has these 86MM domed NOS Mahle kits...so.... 
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tomnotch
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Joined: October 22, 2004
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Location: Key Peninsula, Wash.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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the domed pistons for a early 912 will probably hit the chamber. The 912/356 has a hemi type chamber with a lot of valve angle.
Toss some of that cash my way if ya got so much extra.
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Poor Realist
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Location: Stockholm SWE
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| 73notch wrote: |
build the 1776 combo of his. or the 2332 if you want a true sleeper  |
Type 4, at a minimum 2056cc with FI and 9.5:1. |
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josh
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2003
Posts: 1773
Location: laid back in the tall grass
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| tomnotch wrote: |
the domed pistons for a early 912 will probably hit the chamber. The 912/356 has a hemi type chamber with a lot of valve angle.
Toss some of that cash my way if ya got so much extra. |
That's the way I remember it. I haven't worked on one of those engines in years, and I've only worked on a few. If you've worked on lots of em' you should know.
As I recall the 912 was still a 1600. Not much more displacement than a VW 1600. The 90 horsepower came from efficiency that was engineered in. And cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I think it might worked if you reworked the heads into more of a hemi shape, but you still wouldn't have the valve angles the piston is meant to compliment. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
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Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Hi There All-
Many thanks for all the input. Yes, the 912 WAS a 1600. From what info I've been able to gather, it is NOT going to work. The valve layout wasn't so much of a problem as the slight- but crucial- design difference in the cylinder head. Like I said, the guy who has the pistons/ cyls was going to give them to me as partial payment for a paint job I did for him, so I thought it might be a kick.
It might actually be easier to adapt a 912 longblock, but that's more Bolshevik than I want to deal with right now.
So.... It's going to be the stock original 1600 with FI.
Thanks again.
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R.Rabbit
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2003
Posts: 1565
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Many thanks for the input. Blankie, no it isn't 1. April. Keep in mind though, that THE CAR WILL STILL HAVE THE CORRECT BUMPERS, just in case anyone is curious.
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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knew it was too good to be true... once he woke up, the dark side would be banished...
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Russ Wolfe
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Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
knew it was too good to be true... once he woke up, the dark side would be banished... |
Like he turned on the lights, and the monsters went back under the bed.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| blankmange wrote: |
knew it was too good to be true... once he woke up, the dark side would be banished... |
It's a 1966 Type 34.... and I'm putting dual port, 12v, and injection on it. Alright, it may NOT be 'darkside', but it's at LEAST 'dusk'.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| blankmange wrote: |
knew it was too good to be true... once he woke up, the dark side would be banished... |
It's a 1966 Type 34.... and I'm putting dual port, 12v, and injection on it. Alright, it may NOT be 'darkside', but it's at LEAST 'dusk'. |
a shade of gray, maybe... we need pics, btw..
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