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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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 Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:24 am Post subject: |
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snorkel kit?
Yea, K&N filter cleaning kits last a long ass time.
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: CB Jet Doctor |
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Yeah I call them snorkel's since the stacks sit up above the problem area on the carb.
jet doctor kit from cb performance
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: Re: weber vs Dellorto |
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| old DKP driver wrote: |
It's a toss-up between your dells and 40 idf webers and NO your dells won't sell for $800.00
But, my Italian 40mm webers might. 
after you have the carb kit from John ac.net you still need to buy a can of
air filter oil and spray the filters Before installing.
I will also recommend buying the snorkel kit from CB performance that keeps the crud out of the idle circuit. |
So, you're obviously a Weber guy who does not hold Dells in high regard? LOL It's funny, I've had these discussions back and forth around Webers vs. Dells for years and there are those like Dave Hogarth at Blackline Racing (who rebuilds Dells) tell me flat out that Dells are a far superior carb while others go on and on about Webers. It's probably one of those debates that can never be satisfactorily resolved.
The thing I've obviously discovered about the Dells is that the lead plug in the progression hole degrades over time and starts to leak. If you don't know about this Dell "Achilles Heel," you end up dumping gas into your engine.... without knowing about it....and ultimately destroying it (I had a rebuild not all that long ago and now, I've got an engine that needs another rebuild!). So, as far as superiority over Webers, this is a huge strike against them. And when I had the Dell's rebuilt this winter, the guy who did the job could not guarantee that I wouldn't have the problem all over again down the road.
What I've heard and read about Webers is they are not great at cold starts and depending on where you live, this can be an issue that needs a solution of some kind or another.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd have shipped the Dells to Dave Hogarth (rather than Joe Timberman who failed to plug all the holes), had them rebuilt, and then put them up for sale instead of putting them back on my bus. Live and learn.
I know about spraying the filters and already have a can of it, but I didn't know about CB Performance's "snorkel" kit. Can you tell me how this affects performance? Sounds like a good idea if there isn't a loss of power, etc. I wonder if others here have chosen this option?
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: weber vs Dellorto |
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| BillJohnson wrote: |
| old DKP driver wrote: |
It's a toss-up between your dells and 40 idf webers and NO your dells won't sell for $800.00
But, my Italian 40mm webers might.
after you have the carb kit from John ac.net you still need to buy a can of
air filter oil and spray the filters Before installing.
I will also recommend buying the snorkel kit from CB performance that keeps the crud out of the idle circuit. |
So, you're obviously a Weber guy who does not hold Dells in high regard? LOL It's funny, I've had these discussions back and forth around Webers vs. Dells for years and there are those like Dave Hogarth at Blackline Racing (who rebuilds Dells) tell me flat out that Dells are a far superior carb while others go on and on about Webers. It's probably one of those debates that can never be satisfactorily resolved.
The thing I've obviously discovered about the Dells is that the lead plug in the progression hole degrades over time and starts to leak. If you don't know about this Dell "Achilles Heel," you end up dumping gas into your engine.... without knowing about it....and ultimately destroying it (I had a rebuild not all that long ago and now, I've got an engine that needs another rebuild!). So, as far as superiority over Webers, this is a huge strike against them. And when I had the Dell's rebuilt this winter, the guy who did the job could not guarantee that I wouldn't have the problem all over again down the road.
What I've heard and read about Webers is they are not great at cold starts and depending on where you live, this can be an issue that needs a solution of some kind or another.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd have shipped the Dells to Dave Hogarth (rather than Joe Timberman who failed to plug all the holes), had them rebuilt, and then put them up for sale instead of putting them back on my bus. Live and learn.
I know about spraying the filters and already have a can of it, but I didn't know about CB Performance's "snorkel" kit. Can you tell me how this affects performance? Sounds like a good idea if there isn't a loss of power, etc. I wonder if others here have chosen this option? |
The snorkel kit only raises the idle vent into the air lesening the likelihood of dirt/grit from entering the idle circuit. I don't use the snorkels and rarely ever have an issue with plugged jet/s/ The trick is to be certain the filter base and tops seal tightly.
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1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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In your original post you never said what was wrong with your present carbs other than you wanted something more reliable. There is no carb in the world that I have ever met which doesn't require service once in awhile. Linkages and shafts wear, foam floats start to sink usually in a couple years, tops warp, diaphragms rot, etc., etc.. Only once in my career have I seen a truly plugged jet when fuel and filters are kept clean. The most common issue seen since the early 80's is that manufacturers use a hard foam for floats and those get heavy from fuel saturation. New Del floats are available from the UK.
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| In your original post you never said what was wrong with your present carbs other than you wanted something more reliable. There is no carb in the world that I have ever met which doesn't require service once in awhile. Linkages and shafts wear, foam floats start to sink usually in a couple years, tops warp, diaphragms rot, etc., etc.. Only once in my career have I seen a truly plugged jet when fuel and filters are kept clean. The most common issue seen since the early 80's is that manufacturers use a hard foam for floats and those get heavy from fuel saturation. New Del floats are available from the UK. |
Yes, I would expect normal wear and tear on any mechanical part. The problem with the Dells really seems to be a design flaw. I'm talking about what many refer to as the "Dellorto Drip." It has to do with their "progression holes" and with the lead plugs that are used to plug them. Don't ask me how these function in a Dell; I'm sure there are others on here who can go into the intricacies.
Apparently, it's not uncommon for these lead plugs to corrode or degrade over time which then results in gas leaking into the cylinder. On a dual carb, there are two holes, one for each cylinder. In my case all four holes were leaking gas into my engine. My mechanic doesn't know Dells all that well and didn't know about this issue, so it wasn't addressed for a very long time.
After sending them off to be rebuilt by someone who advertises on here, they came back returned with one hole still leaking. He did offer to fix it for free but at the time I could not afford the loss of my work bus for more than a week. No one up here works on Dells, so the final solution for me is to get the Webers. I'll sends off the bad Dell to Dave Hogarth at Blackline Racing, and when I get it back, will try and sell them here or on eBay.
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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There are couple inherent problems that can be dealt with. The Webers are not perfect either.
The problem I am most familiar with is the float issue. Weber design is better in this area because most have brass floats, or they are available. Brass floats can deteriorate at the solder joints too and leak, but they can be re-soldered if that happens. The hard foam floats, common in a Del seem to start sinking after about 2 - 3 years in my experience, and that causes issues that only replacing the floats can solve. They only place I know of to get floats is from the UK - Jack at http://www.dellortoshop.com/
The weep issue from the plugs, and several permanent fixes are discussed here. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223284&start=0
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
There are couple inherent problems that can be dealt with. The Webers are not perfect either.
The problem I am most familiar with is the float issue. Weber design is better in this area because most have brass floats, or they are available. Brass floats can deteriorate at the solder joints too and leak, but they can be re-soldered if that happens. The hard foam floats, common in a Del seem to start sinking after about 2 - 3 years in my experience, and that causes issues that only replacing the floats can solve. They only place I know of to get floats is from the UK - Jack at http://www.dellortoshop.com/
The weep issue from the plugs, and several permanent fixes are discussed here. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223284&start=0 |
I don't have any expectations of perfection for the Webers.
Yes, re: a "permanent fix" for the Dells, i.e., a set screw or Loctite, sounds simple enough. My big mistake was sending them down to this guy in Portland instead of sending them off to Dave Hogarth. No one up in Seattle has a clue how to tune these things, much less tear them down and rebuild them.
And you would think that if these "helper" holes had served their purpose and were not needed anymore, Dell could and should have plugged them with a set screw (or some other permanent fix) before they left the factory. Surely they knew this was one of it's vulnerabilities?
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI
Last edited by BillJohnson on Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: Delorto vs Weber |
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To the OP:
I have worked on Both the weber and dellorto carbs and definitely have no
preference other than availability for my own use.
Both the 40 idf to 48 idf have there problems and, so do 36 dlra's to 45's.
With that said and that you finally mentioning your Bad experience with the
person that rebuilt your 45's then YES send them out to a quality rebuilder
and then sell them. (45's are too big for a STOCK 2.0 engine) 36's would have been more suited.
As for the "jet doctor" installing perhaps you should have posted this in
the Performance forum.
there are many posts there on this subject and I for one never heard of them until a couple of years ago.
Also, You Don't have Brass floats in your DLRA carbs they are plastic similar
to weber idf's
Old dcoe ,dcnf, etc. that are side draft carbs used them.
back to the jet doctors THEY WORK as it's not just greasing the filter surfaces but also the fact tiny pieces of debris cannot accumulate any longer.
When you install your NEW set Ditch the crummy rubber coated washers that fit under the wing nuts for the air filter tops as they also fall apart.
I went with flat washers and nylock nuts.
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Delorto vs Weber |
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| old DKP driver wrote: |
To the OP:
I have worked on Both the weber and dellorto carbs and definitely have no
preference other than availability for my own use.
Both the 40 idf to 48 idf have there problems and, so do 36 dlra's to 45's.
With that said and that you finally mentioning your Bad experience with the
person that rebuilt your 45's then YES send them out to a quality rebuilder
and then sell them. (45's are too big for a STOCK 2.0 engine) 36's would have been more suited.
As for the "jet doctor" installing perhaps you should have posted this in
the Performance forum.
there are many posts there on this subject and I for one never heard of them until a couple of years ago.
Also, You Don't have Brass floats in your DLRA carbs they are plastic similar
to weber idf's
Old dcoe ,dcnf, etc. that are side draft carbs used them.
back to the jet doctors THEY WORK as it's not just greasing the filter surfaces but also the fact tiny pieces of debris cannot accumulate any longer.
When you install your NEW set Ditch the crummy rubber coated washers that fit under the wing nuts for the air filter tops as they also fall apart.
I went with flat washers and nylock nuts. |
No, I had Dell 40's that got rebuilt, not 45s. And the choice for Webers was either 40s or 44s, with most everyone strongly recommending the 40s. I came to agree with this collective advice.
Did you get the idea that I thought I had brass floats on my Dells? No, I knew they were plastic and one of them was cracked when we did the rebuild, but was not leaking into the float.
Thanks for the suggestion on flat washers and nylon nuts.
I will follow through on the snorkel kit.
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
There are couple inherent problems that can be dealt with. The Webers are not perfect either.
The problem I am most familiar with is the float issue. Weber design is better in this area because most have brass floats, or they are available. Brass floats can deteriorate at the solder joints too and leak, but they can be re-soldered if that happens. The hard foam floats, common in a Del seem to start sinking after about 2 - 3 years in my experience, and that causes issues that only replacing the floats can solve. They only place I know of to get floats is from the UK - Jack at http://www.dellortoshop.com/
The weep issue from the plugs, and several permanent fixes are discussed here. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=223284&start=0 |
Steve, I wanted to thank you for that link on the drip. With all the back and forth with those who have had some experience with Dells, this link you posted explains why these holes were even there given that they get plugged and seem to serve no real function! Helper holes! Who knew!
Also, previously I erroneously thought that only a small amount of gas was leaking into the cylinders, but your post clearly says otherwise! Explains why I always felt something else was going on back there because the smell of gas was so strong! An entire float bowl every time I drove the bus! Over and over. No wonder my rebuild is toast!
I wonder if this is connected to an inexplicable sporadic problem I have turning the engine over? Not enough oil lubricating the cylinder? We've been focused on it being an electrical issue, but have been unable to find one.
Anyway, you can see how having these carbs can lead to a disaster if you've got entire float bowls of gas getting dumped into each cylinder (for every leaking hole).
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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maukar
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Downers Grove, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| There's a guy on the KCW site who just posted a set. He's offering them up to members there before he lists them on the Samba. Might be just what your looking for! |
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| maukar wrote: |
| There's a guy on the KCW site who just posted a set. He's offering them up to members there before he lists them on the Samba. Might be just what your looking for! |
Thanks for the post, but I've already gone ahead and ordered a pair of new Weber 40s from John at air-cooled.net.
KCW site?
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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maukar
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Downers Grove, Illinois
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BillJohnson
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Carbs from air-cooled.net arrived today |
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Am so looking forward to not smelling gas each and every day I get near my bus. Will post back once they're calibrated and up and running.
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1979 Type 2 w/ Weber 40 IDF carbs
2003 Jetta TDI |
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