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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
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Location: Oregon Coast
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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: Brand New AA 88 Cylinders Cracked and leaking oil |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
I'm late to this party, but how did the barrels fit in the heads?, slight side play or tight?. Any lapping compound left on the sealing faces?. Any head gasket rings used?
Might try a loosen and retorque, but crunchy noises either mean something forcing itself past something or cracks forming, I assume you put a straightedge across the barrel tops to confirm they were all even? |
Well I pulled it down to look for the oil leaks, Looks like my cylinders are cracked! Turns out that cracking noise was the fins braking off when torqued! Either these AA performance Cylinders have too much fin on them or the DRD L3 Heads have the cuts for the thickwalls a little off! I can make the cylinders fit side by side by grinding the fins but Dam!
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Joined: August 15, 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Brand New AA 88 Cylinders Cracked and leaking oil |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
I'm late to this party, but how did the barrels fit in the heads?, slight side play or tight?. Any lapping compound left on the sealing faces?. Any head gasket rings used?
Might try a loosen and retorque, but crunchy noises either mean something forcing itself past something or cracks forming, I assume you put a straightedge across the barrel tops to confirm they were all even? |
Well I pulled it down to look for the oil leaks, Looks like my cylinders are cracked! Turns out that cracking noise was the fins braking off when torqued! Either these AA performance Cylinders have too much fin on them or the DRD L3 Heads have the cuts for the thickwalls a little off! I can make the cylinders fit side by side by grinding the fins but Dam!
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Actually it might not be either of those problems. Sometimes when using the thickwall 92's or 94's and 10mm head studs, you need to clearance on the barrel where the stud go through. I had a motor once about 10 years ago when I first encountered this problem that drove me absolutely insane. It took me a week to figure it out. Since 99% of my engine builds are new with 8mm studs, I never thought to look before. Well, I was building someone a motor out of a pile of parts they brought me and he didn't want to switch to 8mm head studs. The easiest way to figure it out is to take all the pistons out and just slide each barrel in individually while checking to make sure none of the head studs are binding on the barrel. If any do, just use a die grinder to clearance and you'll be good to go.
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Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Roy, I thought of that! I ground down the fins on one cylinder and they fit fine that way! Pretty sure the DRD L3 heads were opened up to the wrong specification! I will measure them and post that info here when I get them off again.
Find it kind of hard to believe my cylinders are cracked all the way through but I have no other way to explain the oil leak, it coming from the cylinder! When the engine is reved it leaks pretty bad! The funny thing is the engine runs, tunes and idles fine!
I get what your saying though it could be the stud holes on the heads or the cylinders or my case that's out of specification. I bet "Mahle" pistons and cylinders would have fit though.
Grinding off Fins:
Fit after grinding Fins:
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Tcash
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I find it hard to believe they cracked all the way to the inner barrel also.
Take them to a machine shop and have them magnafluxed.
Good Luck
Tcash |
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Me too! So you think Magna Fluxing would show up any cracks? The thing is the engine was dry elsewhere and I pressure tested the pushrod tubes and they were good.
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Tcash
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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So you think Magna Fluxing would show up any cracks?
Yes, It shows cracks not visible to the eye. This is the method they use to check cast iron heads and blocks for cracks.
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I am going to pull them and have a good look and see if there is a crack on the outside that looks like it goes inside before taking them for Magna Flux testing. The steel that these AA's are made out of seems a little different than cast Iron it's pretty tough on the thin end the one that I had eariler with a tare in it was flexable and tended to tare deeper rather than break off the way most cast Iron does.
This Photo was back when I messed up the rings trying to install them from the thin end of the cylinder on the engine. The Napa ring compressor allowed the oil ring to fold into the cylinder on it's side splitting the cylinder too. This was repaired with a new 88mm cylinder and new Grant Rings all around!
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Last edited by Danwvw on Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:45 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: What Should I do to the Rings? |
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Just wondering now, When I install the new cylinders on the slightly run Rings, What should I do as far as prep to the rings and the cylinders. The Grant Rings have about 1 hour of running on them.
I was Thinking 600 emery on the new cylinders and nothing to the rings? A little motor oil! Does this sound right?
After One Hour of Running here is what the Pistons and Cylinders looked Like:
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Mr.Duncan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if this means anything but:
On engines I've built in the past, with new rings/cylinders/pistons.
Upon having the proper compression ring gap (one at 9 o'clock, and one at 3 o'clock)
After about 20,000 miles my 40 year old case cracked, and upon tear down, I noticed one cylinder had both compression rings aligned up with their gaps at 2 o'clock
So it seems like the rings rotate? Constantly? I'm not sure.
It's just what I have seen.
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I will check the ring placement. The Grant rings have specific instructions and what your saying sounds about right. I am waiting to hear from your place "Texas Air Cooled" on when he can send the new cylinders. He has the best price on them. I don't know about rings, Can't see how they could possibly stay in place but I always spread them out. It will be interesting to see where they would up after one hour of run time.
But what I am trying to figure out is will the rings seat OK even though they are slightly used? I don't know perhaps they need to be hit with some Scotch Bright!
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Tcash
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would not do anything with the rings. An hour is nothing. The cylinders will come with the cross hatch pattern honed in them. This will seat the rings to the new cylinders.
It is important to use a brush with some detergent to clean the grinding stone dust out of the crosshatch grooves.
Good luck
Tcash
I used to align the rings perfectly, until I learned they move around in use. |
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just sanded the new cylinders with 600 sand paper and cleaned and oiled them and slipped them on! The new cylinders were already cut to fit! Went right on no problems. Engine runs great No more oil dripping out my cylinders!
Photo:
OLd cylinders:
Old cylinders Measure:
New Cylinders out of the box measure:
Photo of New Cylinders in Box:
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ach60 
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Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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When I mocked up my motor I saw that the fins on my AA 90.5 Cylinders interfered, so I filed them down for clearance.
My question for you is are the cylinders the same height, when installed in/on the case?
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Last edited by ach60 on Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Sure hope they were the same height! Looked pretty close by eye! The new cylinders set much more even at the fins. Photos below:
You did it right! I screwed up by not noticing the problem. Cost me $92 for a new set of cylinders! My parts place seems to be onto the problem though because the new cylinder were cut down at the fins. They went right on as they should have!
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: 1971 VW Bus Spare Engine Build Sheet 74mm Stroke 88mm bore |
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Here are a few photos, No oil leaks now, 4 new cylinders. Installed New Wide Mouth Stainless Steel Push Rod Tubes (Very Nice Product), New Head nuts and washers, Sealed cylinders and nuts with the Curil-T case sealer.
New Cylinders came with the fins trimmed everything fits fine now:
Photo of the cylinders that I cracked:
Engine together with the new breather box installed now:
Here is an updated Build Sheet:
Build Sheet: 1800cc Type 1 Spare Engine
Machine Work, Local VW Shop "Bug Germinators" in Coos Bay-North Bend Oregon
Case Type 3 Universal Case 10mm Studs inserted,
Bronze Lifter Bores by Rocky Jennings.,
88mm Bore, 74mm Stroke,
Dual 36 DRLA Dellorto Carburetors,
Cam Web-Cam 118 with 286' 245' at .050" and .402" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers and about .460 lift with 1.25:1 Ratio rockers Web-Cam Cam Card
Cylinder Heads DRD L3 Racing Heads with stock Valve Sizes and cut for 88mm ThickWall Cylinders,
35.5x32mm Stainless Steel Valves, No step and cut for 53 cc combustion chamber, 14mm X 3/4 reach spark plug holes and single high rev valve springs. These heads were port matched to the manifolds at DRD.
Solid Rocker shaft from CB-Performance, 1.25:1 Ratio Scat VW rockers,
Scat Swivel Feet Adjusters,
Stock VW Aluminum Push Rods
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance Large ID Stainless Steel Racing tubes, 1567 Pushrod Tubes
Lifters are cb-performance 1537 UltraLightWeight 28mm,
CR 8.6:1
Rods 5.325" AA Performance forged 4340 steel I Beam with 3/8 ARP rod bolts balanced,
Crankshaft: 74mm Counterweighted Scat Forged it is a used crank but had it polished and balanced,
Piston and Cylinders AA Performance, 88mm AA ThickWall slip in bottom Machine in at the head from Texas Aircooled,
Flywheel Stock VW Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels balanced without a clutch,
Clutch: None on the engine yet,
Stock pulley but I have Scat Aluminum degree pulley for it,
Used Bocar mechanical alternator style Fuel Pump,
Oil Pump 26mm Schadek with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter CB-Performance 1732,
Oil Filter Wix 51515
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
Distributor is a Stock 1971 Bus, German Bosch 205AN DVDA with points, Mechanical Advance and only the Vacuum Advance is connected, Timing set 7.5 Degrees Static,
Coil: Generic 2.2 ohm Coil painted blue (gets too hot, needs resistor but is producing a great spark),
Spark Wires new bosch,
Spark Plugs are champion 14mm X 3/4 N9YC like a W7 mid heat range,
Alternator 12 volt Bosch AL82 internally regulated it is used,
CB performance off-set with hex bar linkage and air-cleaners.
Current Air Correction are : 1.80
Mains: 1.32
Idle: .55
Venturi: 30mm
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Saga Engine Rebuild 1971 Bus |
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I forgot to mention that with the new cylinders I installed New Grant Rings on all. It's been months now since this engine was completed. I started it the other day, all the gasoline had evaporated out of the carbs so it took some cranking but it did eventually roar to life. This engine seems like it is eggar to run in the bus but the 1800cc Type 1 I built in 2013 is still going strong so this engine just sits for now.
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Saga Engine Rebuild 1971 Bus |
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Just noticed that the webcam website has obsoleted some links I used in this thread here is the latest link Webcams for VW type 1 Engines.
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:50 pm Post subject: Spare Engine Weber IDF 40 Carbs UpDated Build Sheet |
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Spare Engine Built in 2015 never installed yet now with Weber 40's:
Feb. 5th UpDate. Installed the F 11 Main Emulsion Tubes and 190 Main Airs and ran it a bit today. (Note! With the 50 Idle Jets, Idle is best at at about 1 turn out to 1 1/4 turns. Idling very nice and starting nice. Switching to the F11 Tubes made it a little rough on crossover. Could the float level need to be set higher for F11's? this engine is starting and idling nicer than it did with the Dellortos.)
Here is an updated Build Sheet: 1800cc Type 1 Spare Engine With Weber IDF 40's:
Machine Work, Local VW Shop "Bug Germinators" in Coos Bay-North Bend Oregon
Case Type 3 Universal Case 10mm Studs inserted,
Bronze Lifter Bores by Rocky Jennings.,
Bore & Stroke 88mm x 74mm
Cam Web-Cam 118 with 286' 245' at .050".402" Valve Lift with 1.1:1 Rockers .460 lift with 1.25:1 Ratio rockers
Web-Cam Cam Card
CB performance off-set with hex bar linkage and air-cleaners.
Carburetors: Dual:
40 IDF Italy Webers
28mm ventures
210 Main Air?190
115 Mains
50 idles
F7 Main Emulsion Tubes F11 Main Emulsion tubes
80 F5 Idle tubes
36 DRLA Dellorto
Dell 36 Air Correction: 1.80
Dell 36 Mains: 1.32
Dell 36 Idle: .55
Dell 36 Venturi: 30mm
Cylinder Heads DRD L3 Racing Heads cut for 88mm ThickWall Cylinders,
35.5x32mm Stainless Steel Stock Size Valves, No step, 53 cc combustion chamber, 14mm X 3/4 reach spark plug holes and single HD high rev valve springs. These heads were port matched to the manifolds at DRD.
Solid Rocker shaft from CB-Performance, 1.25:1 Ratio Scat VW rockers,
Scat Swivel Feet Adjusters, (Probably need to change the adjusters to Elephant feet ones!)
Stock VW Aluminum Push Rods (These need to be upgraded as they hit with the 1.25 ratio rockers and the webcam #118 grind camshaft!)
Push Rod Tubes are CB Performance Large ID Stainless Steel Racing tubes, 1567 Pushrod Tubes
Lifters are cb-performance 1537 UltraLightWeight 28mm,
CR 8.6:1
Rods 5.325" AA Performance forged 4340 steel I Beam with 3/8 ARP rod bolts balanced,
Crankshaft: 74mm Counterweighted Scat Forged it is a used crank but had it polished and balanced,
Piston and Cylinders AA Performance, 88mm AA ThickWall slip in bottom Machine in at the head from Texas Aircooled,
Flywheel Stock VW Surfaced and drilled for 8 dowels balanced without a clutch,
Clutch: None on the engine yet,
Stock pulley but I have Scat Aluminum degree pulley for it,
Used Bocar mechanical alternator style Fuel Pump, New Mechanical Fuel Pump,
Oil Pump 26mm Schadek with Empi Steel Full Flow Cover Plate,
Oil lines and remote filter CB-Performance 1732,
Oil Filter Wix 51515 Fram PH-2870A
Castrol GTX 5W30 motor oil with Lucas TB Plus Zinc Oil Additive,
Distributor is a Stock German Bosch 205AN DVDA with points, Timing set 7.5 Degrees Static,
Coil: Generic 2.2 ohm Coil painted blue (gets too hot, needs a resistor but is producing a great spark) (Resistor added but it starts better with the resistor jumpered.)
Spark Wires new bosch,
Spark Plugs are champion 14mm X 3/4 N9YC like a W7 mid heat range,
Alternator 12 volt Bosch AL82 internally regulated it is used,
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Saga Engine Rebuild 1971 Bus |
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It's been a while. Bench started it today, primed the fuel pump by shooting some gas to it in it's output side. Then reconnected the lines and cranked till it developed pressure and filled the Webers. Then turn on the ignition and she fired right up. Wow. Did start running idling on 3 cylinders after a bit of revving. Cleaned #2 Idle Jet. That was it! Now it's right. Starts up and idles and revs... Looks good. I will link a video:
Link
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Danwvw
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Saga Engine Rebuild 1971 Bus |
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While returning my attention to this engine I remembered it may need some work to the valve train: It has ball adjusters which may not be wise with the Scat 1.25 Ratio Rockers because they don't all align well with the end of the valve stems.
Any thoughts on this?
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