Fuel pump/line question

Disastergrafix · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: Fuel pump/line question

Ok so my fuel pump is leaking where the out nipple is. I wanted to replace it with a new mechanical one but am a little stumped on what to do. Parts store told me I need to pull pump and get rod length and also let them know if I have an alternator. Well my fuel pump has a metal line coming to it at the inlet nipple. Looks threaded. Most have a rubber hose from what I've seen. My motor is supposed to be a rebuilt 1971 1600cc motor. There is no serial under alt/gen stand so I can verify it. So I'm wondering what do I do with the metal line to get it to hook to a new fuel pump? Is there something easy? Really want to get this in the road. Also do I have an alternator? The last two pics show it from the side.
Thanks for the help.

P.S. There is two size hose's on outlet nipple because I was trying to see if I could make it a tighter fit. I thought it was leaking at the hose but it's the nipple. Haven't messed with it since.

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bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

you need to fix the leak, if the nipple is leaking it may be loose and could fallout of the pump body (this also goes for inlets on the carbs) Red my link at bottom of the posts on engine fires and the safety wire trick to prevent the nipples form falling out, this is very important!!!!!

the nipples are pressed into the pump and carb body and will come loose over time...I'd remove them, Locktite them in place and add the safety wires. overs have installed threaded nipples.

No reason to replace a pump over a leaky nipple if it can be fixed.

I suggest you only run lined hoses such as SAE 30R9 hose that will resist todays government mandated fuels that eat lesser hoses.

I would eliminate that spliced hose that is seen in the photo on the upper pump hose, (outlet) and install hose clamps at each joint.

So you should be able to fix that pump, else get a new one.
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wcfvw69 · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject:

As suggested above, you can remove the nipple off that pump w/out taking the pump off the engine. I've found it best to use the German 5.5mm hose and push it on that nipple. It grabs the nipple and will help you wiggle the nipple out. I use JB Weld on the nipple. I rough up the area on the nipple that slides into the pump body with some sand paper. Clean it well after sanding and apply the JB weld to the nipple and then push it back in the pump body. You don't want to put the JB Weld at the end of the nipple that goes into the body. It could push some excess JB weld inside the pump. Just smear a light amount about 1/4" above the end of the nipple about 3/8ths of an inch wide and then slide it in. Let the JB Weld cure and it won't leak or ever come out again.
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grandpa pete · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject:

Be very happy you found the leak BEFORE the nipple fell off and burnt dowm another VW . Wink

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Disastergrafix · Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:50 pm Post subject:

Ok, I will take a look at the pump body then. That's cool if I can fix it without removing the pump. Kind of scares me though that it can just come out and spray gas on everything.... Bad design... Makes me want to put the electric one in I have sitting in a box.

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

61SNRF · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:00 am Post subject:

Okay, you have an early Generator style fuel pump on there.
Visible clue is the bolt on top cover, they stopped using that type pre-'65.
You can also tell it's a Gen style pump because it stands straight up and is almost hitting on the Alternator, and yes that's an Alt on your engine.

Best case would be to change the pump to the later Alt style, they angle over to the left and have more clearance between the Alt, and the fittings on one of those are integral with the cover so they will never come out.
Thing is, they also use a shorter push rod, so you'll have to change that too if you get the later pump.
Random pic of one from the Gallery...

BTW it looks like you have the wrong strap/clamp on your Alt., it's too small. Probably made for a 6 volt Gen.

When fully tightened it's ends should just touch together.
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Disastergrafix · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:19 am Post subject:

So I've been noticing since I got my bug that things around the motor were rigged. I've gotten rid of a lot of extra wire and splices, fixed sensors, added gauges and am still going.

So if I decide to change the fuel pump out with a new one which makes me feel better vs the old one and don't mind the extra $30. I mean I have. $70 electric one sitting in a box that I don't have time to put on. I just want this thing going so I can test other issues right now. How do I know what pump I need? I see ones for different years that change around '71. Which is what year my motor is supposed to be. I need the pump for an alternator, the black plastic spacer thing, and the new shorter rod, and a gasket. So how do I hook the threaded metal fuel line to the new pump? Do I have to pull the whole metal line out and switch to rubber? Do I cut the metal line and just jam a rubber hose over it?

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

Where is the threaded metal line???

the plastic spacer often does NOT need replacement.
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Disastergrafix · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:06 am Post subject:

The metal line is going into the in nipple of the pump and the rubber line is going out of my out nipple to the "T" at my dual carbs.

rcroane · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:04 am Post subject:

When you say "the metal line is going into the nipple of the pump", how is it attached? There should be a union nut which is not there. How is that flexible rubber line attached? Are you certain the inlet is threaded? I'm thinking you have something like in this photo.......

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bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

rcroane · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:11 am Post subject:

Here's the type of pump Bluebus is referring to....I use one on my '65. Hard line is threaded in using a union nut and a compression ferrule (not shown in this picture).

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Disastergrafix · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject:

Mine looks like that last pic, but the out side of pump is aiming down.
Is there something to transition from metal to rubber? Or do you just cut it and slip rubber over it and put rubber on new pump inlet?

rcroane · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject:

Your pump looks to be the one in the FIRST picture I posted (black and white). Yours does not have a threaded inlet. If you get a new pump with a pressed in pipe as an inlet, simply remove the piece of flexible fuel line that is there now, replace it with a new piece, and join your metal fuel line to the inlet pipe. I clamp all fuel line connections.

The reason yours is leaking from the outlet is that someone has twisted the pipe so it points down. By doing so, it has come loose from its fitting.

As for the spacer under the pump, not only do you not necessarily have to replace it as Bluebus said, but you should only attempt to replace it if it is damaged. These are notorious for breaking off in the engine case when trying to remove them.
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Disastergrafix · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject:

You guys are helping me so much. Thank you. One last thing. When I called to order the fuel pump they wanted to know which one I needed and the rod length. So what you guys are telling me right now is that I have the generator fuel pump which will have the longer rod. I now need the alternator fuel pump with the shorter rod? I don't want to get the exact same one that's in my motor. I want the correct one. I will order a black plastic spacer and a couple extra gaskets to have on hand just in case. I also kind of wanted to put a fuel pressure gauge after the pump to monitor pressure. Can you suggest one?
Thanks again guys.

rcroane · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject:

Yes, if you have an alternator, specify a pump designed for an alternator. Alternator pumps use the shorter (100mm) pushrod.

Checking the fuel pressure from the new pump is a good idea since aftermarket pumps are notorious for putting out very high pressure. Harbor Freight sells a decent one if you want to check it without installing a permanent gauge.
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Disastergrafix · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject:

I want to install a permanent gauge. One that's little and that I can look at whenever. Something inline that's common.

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

rcroane · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject:

Something like this works just fine. Get a quality tee fitting and some 5mm fuel line and connect to your pump and carb. Do a search and you'll find more specifics on how to rig this up. It's simple and effective. And you can't beat the price!

http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-pump-and-vacuum-tester-93547.html
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