| Author |
Message |
raoul mitgong
Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009
Posts: 1338
Location: Denver, CO
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Does it knock more when you let off the gas? Are you familiar with the sound differences between valve ticks and rod knocks?
-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Set each cylinder in turn at TDC and then with the valve covers removed grab hold of the upper end of each rocker and see if any have free play. They should all be tight. Quick, cheap, and easy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am currently on the road (made 700 miles so far, took the plunge!) so I jiggered an air chuck to shrader out of 4 pieces from the plumbing section and pressurized the cylinder at TDC with a bike pump. All the air I put in came out of the air intake. Heard nothing at oil and no bubbles in coolant. Is this good news? Means I only need a top end rebuild, right? Do we think it will take me a few thousand more miles or should I hang out in santa fe for a bit then head home with my fingers crossed?
Here is a video of the sound: https://youtu.be/lf0SRI3Ww4g
The squealing sound is a throttle body vacuum leak which I've since fixed.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jkmcrg wrote: |
I am currently on the road (made 700 miles so far, took the plunge!) so I jiggered an air chuck to shrader out of 4 pieces from the plumbing section and pressurized the cylinder at TDC with a bike pump. All the air I put in came out of the air intake. Heard nothing at oil and no bubbles in coolant. Is this good news? Means I only need a top end rebuild, right? Do we think it will take me a few thousand more miles or should I hang out in santa fe for a bit then head home with my fingers crossed?
Here is a video of the sound: https://youtu.be/lf0SRI3Ww4g
The squealing sound is a throttle body vacuum leak which I've since fixed. |
well you got a problem with that cylinder. you want to know if you should rebuild more, well figure how many miles on the motor, if it like 180K miles, it might be wise to do the whole thing. how is oil pressure hot??? that will give a clue as too bearing health.
do some homework before taking the plunge either way, a skimpy rebuild or a complete.
a skimpy rebuild may give some more engine life, but if you then need to do more, a lot of work is repeated and wasted. If your plan is long term to keep the van and drive a lot, a more complete rebuild might be more economical for you now, verses many skimpy repairs over time.
anyway you not done assessing engine condition yet
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Which cyl did you test? Which cyl was at TDC during the test? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Pull the plug off the injector on the bad cylinder so you don't melt the valve even worse than it already is and cause the head to pop off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Pull the plug off the injector on the bad cylinder so you don't melt the valve even worse than it already is and cause the head to pop off. |
Will this damage the engine, not combusting in that cylinder? I am 700 miles from home, is it better to melt the valves or do the damage that unplugging the injector might do? (which may be none?)
| bluebus86 wrote: |
| you not done assessing engine condition yet |
okay I will contact PO to see if he knows the milage (but I'm pretty sure not) and check oil pressure.
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| Which cyl did you test? Which cyl was at TDC during the test? |
The one that has low compression, cylinder 2. Heard it blowing out air so I knew it was on compression stroke, then used a ratchet extension in spark plug hole to observe max piston height.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jkmcrg wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Pull the plug off the injector on the bad cylinder so you don't melt the valve even worse than it already is and cause the head to pop off. |
Will this damage the engine, not combusting in that cylinder? I am 700 miles from home, is it better to melt the valves or do the damage that unplugging the injector might do? (which may be none?) |
If you continue driving an engine with a valve leaking hot gases passed it then you are very likely to drop a valve head and destroy the head and piston along with the possibility of throwing a rod through the block. While pulling the plug from the injector will not 100% guaranty that you will not have something bad happen in that cylinder, it greatly lessens the chance. YMMV |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
taylora
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Some sage advice I received from some kids in their young twenties who also had a Westy "As long as she rolls". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The great thing is you made it 700 miles - make it to 1,000 and there is a special thread for you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If you continue driving an engine with a valve leaking hot gases passed it then you are very likely to drop a valve head and destroy the head and piston along with the possibility of throwing a rod through the block. |
Define "continue", haha. Well I unplugged the injector and was surprised to find myself nearly unable to accelerate uphill. Jeeeeze when you don't have a lot of power, loosing a quarter of it really hurts. So I don't think I can drive this on any highways, so I guess my option is to spend the rest of this trip in the hills of Albuquerque and Santa Fe bike riding some single track, then hope I make it the other 700 miles back, then do a full rebuild.
I hear I am in 10c's neighborhood though... hmmmmmm
| Merian wrote: |
| The great thing is you made it 700 miles - make it to 1,000 and there is a special thread for you! |
Oh yeah? Well I plan on it! Where is this thread?
| taylora wrote: |
| Some sage advice I received from some kids in their young twenties who also had a Westy "As long as she rolls". |
Sage, indeed. I'd be more inclined to if I had a traveling companion, but as it stands my girlfriend is in school and I imagine breaking down in the desert would be a pretty lonely experience
_________________
1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jkmcrg wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If you continue driving an engine with a valve leaking hot gases passed it then you are very likely to drop a valve head and destroy the head and piston along with the possibility of throwing a rod through the block. |
Define "continue", haha. Well I unplugged the injector and was surprised to find myself nearly unable to accelerate uphill. Jeeeeze when you don't have a lot of power, loosing a quarter of it really hurts. So I don't think I can drive this on any highways, so I guess my option is to spend the rest of this trip in the hills of Albuquerque and Santa Fe bike riding some single track, then hope I make it the other 700 miles back, then do a full rebuild.
I hear I am in 10c's neighborhood though... hmmmmmm
| Merian wrote: |
| The great thing is you made it 700 miles - make it to 1,000 and there is a special thread for you! |
Oh yeah? Well I plan on it! Where is this thread?
| taylora wrote: |
| Some sage advice I received from some kids in their young twenties who also had a Westy "As long as she rolls". |
Sage, indeed. I'd be more inclined to if I had a traveling companion, but as it stands my girlfriend is in school and I imagine breaking down in the desert would be a pretty lonely experience |
pulling the injector will greatly help in keeping the leaky valve cool. it will not harm the motor to run that way. Also a leaky exhaust valve will let unburned fuel into the exhaust, and that can harm the catalyst.
heck my family drove home from portland OR to central CA in a 63 Microbus on two dead cylinders. and we only had 50 hp to start with (1500 cc)!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If you have a valve that isn't sealing how much power do you think that cylinder can be putting out? How much power do you think it will put out once the head drops off the valve. Maybe your troubleshooting to this point is leading you in the wrong direction, but continuing to drive an engine with a valve that isn't sealing well is likely to end in disaster. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If you have a valve that isn't sealing how much power do you think that cylinder can be putting out? How much power do you think it will put out once the head drops off the valve. Maybe your troubleshooting to this point is leading you in the wrong direction, but continuing to drive an engine with a valve that isn't sealing well is likely to end in disaster. |
Are you implying I may have done the test incorrectly? Because the loss of power is very noticeable. The piston is still getting 80 psi, so it's still putting out decent power, right? Buy yes you're right about dropping a head. I bet that would probably lose me a little power.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jkmcrg wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| If you have a valve that isn't sealing how much power do you think that cylinder can be putting out? How much power do you think it will put out once the head drops off the valve. Maybe your troubleshooting to this point is leading you in the wrong direction, but continuing to drive an engine with a valve that isn't sealing well is likely to end in disaster. |
Are you implying I may have done the test incorrectly? Because the loss of power is very noticeable. The piston is still getting 80 psi, so it's still putting out decent power, right? Buy yes you're right about dropping a head. I bet that would probably lose me a little power. |
It is really hard to figure out what is going on with an engine by reading other's post over the internet. Things that would seem very obvious were one there in person may be totally missed when someone describes symptoms over the internet. What I do know is that a persistent compression leak under load will likely burn or melt something leading to an expensive failure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| just drive it until it blows up - you want a Suby conversion anyway |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jkmcrg
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2014
Posts: 169
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Merian wrote: |
| The great thing is you made it 700 miles - make it to 1,000 and there is a special thread for you! |
Made it back to Austin  Where's my thread? 1500 and counting.
_________________
1984 Westfalia Orwell (crispy)
2.2L Digifant
Automatic transmission |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| taylora wrote: |
| Some sage advice I received from some kids in their young twenties who also had a Westy "As long as she rolls". |
I don't think that was sage they were smoking... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
