Getting the Horns working properly

[kiwighia68]

Hi Nicholas, I've been able to clean up and install the horns and relay with the associated wiring following your tutorial. So far so good.

But I've hit a snag. The wiring at the horn ring has me stumped. I've watched the YouTube videos and opened the link to the site where they discuss the horn wiring for different years, but unfortunately it left me more confused than before. What started the confusion is the first YouTube video your posted earlier - on the steering wheel bearing installation. It shows a green wire going from the bearing (where it's welded on) to a connector to the horn relay. Here's my problem:

I have the new bearing but with a brown wire - seen here next to the flasher unit (indicator assembly), which also has a brown wire which has to go to the horn relay according to the wiring diagram I have.

As I understand it, the brown wire coming up through the steering column from the steering box where it is grounded has to be connected on the horn ring (where it is captured under a screw).

What do I make then of the other two brown wires? One is on the bearing (which is isolated from the steering tube and shaft) and the other is on the flasher unit. Please tell me where each of these should go. They can't both go to the horn relay, can they?
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015

[sputnick60]

I'm not an expert with the later models. Your's from '68 has a different set up. In the earlier models the wire from the relay goes to the column tube. Your model year is different in that the horn relay wire goes to the wire on the bearing assembly. There should be an insulated joiner in there behind the gauges. After that just follow the video instructions.

Nicholas.
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
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[kiwighia68]

[kiwighia68]

Nicholas has asked me to post my experience with the replacement of the steering wheel bearing and horn ring. My car is a '68 RHD coupe and in that model (and I believe '69 and '70 models) the steering wwheel bearing is partof the horns circuitry and the horn ring, of course, is used to activate the horns. I'll do this in two posts. Here's the first:

The parts are ready, together with the parts I need for the turn signal.

The new bearing's plastic casing (insulator) was too thick and I couldn't force the bearing in deep enough to be able to get the large snap ring in place. So I ended up having to disconnect the steering column from the steering box - including removal of the steering rubber buffer - here. (The brown wire is the earth from the turn signal for the horns. It completes the circuit when you press down on the horn ring.)

The installation of the bearing goes in a couple of steps:
First the inner sleeve goes in with the flange down (going on the shaft first).
Then the new bearing goes in with its outer sleeve in place, care being taken to ensure the brown wire's connector faces to the left where there is an aperture for it. (This is a different brown wire, and it will be connected to the horn relay via a couple of connectors.)

Once I had the new bearing in position, I had to fit the snap ring in place. There is a groove on the inside of the steering tube for it. (I've often pondered what the purpose of these little pliers was, but now I know. It's to force the arms of the snap ring closer together. There's another one for forcing the arms apart.)

With the snap ring in place,

what remains is to make sure the brown wire - essential for the operation of the horns - has been threaded through to meet up with the wires from the turn signal switch.

The next job is to re-install the turn signal switch and to connect up all the wires.
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015

[kiwighia68]

So here's the second instalment:

Nailed the Ignition switch down - two flat-headed screws:

Then the turn signal switch with four tiny screws: They should all be flat-headed screws but my car came to me with one phillips screw and 3 flat-heads. (My late father-in-law insisted that when one has a group of screws together, the slots should always line up - not necessary on phillips).

Next came the horn ring assembly, with three flat-headed screws. I should have taken a photo but under each screw are the following: EDIT: Here's a photo showing the horn ring assembly from the back:

1. a flat plastic washer acting as insulation between the screw and the horn ring
2. the horn ring
3. a copper or brass ring
4. a 3-4mm thick plastic washer (This washer isolates the horn ring from the copper ring and should be replaced when it is cracked or broken.)
5. a spring

EDIT: The springed screw's five separate components are shown here:

EDIT: The screw goes through the flat washer first, then the horn ring, then the copper/brass ring, and then the second plastic washer. The springs slip over the screw and you're ready to put the horn ring in place. Be careful not to drop the springs - they slip off all too easily.

EDIT: The copper/brass ring is "cupped" or saucer-shaped, with a small flange around its outer edge. That side must go onto the horn ring, so that it "cups" the ring. I cleaned the copper/brass ring with a small wire brush and then soaked it in domestic white vinegar.

EDIT: The springed screws go into these holes:

The screws need to be pressed down - against the action of the springs - and screwed into their designated threaded holes.

These three screws are used to adjust the action of the horn ring.

There is a grommet for the brown horn wire coming up through the steering shaft. Very few Ghias (or VW's of any description) have them, I believe.

The brown wire is grounded on the horn ring in the small threaded slot. I'll show that in a post to follow.
_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015

[kiwighia68]

The last step is to fix the horn ground wire coming through the steering tube (where it is grounded at the foot of the steering shaft as shown earlier) to the horn ring in the designated threaded hole. Here it is in place.

That I still had that little screw after 2 years is a miracle.

The job is done when the crest is back on the wheel - not counting the testing and any adjustments required to ensure the push on the horn ring is equalised at L, R and centre below.

_________________
Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015

[SchnuppiePup]

I found this thread very helpful. Got my horn (both claxons) working a few minutes ago.

The last issue I encountered was that my horn worked when I pressed on the left side and middle but not when pressing on the right side. I unbolted the horn lever and noticed that the steering wheel hub on my car (64 coupe) has a ring that protrudes a few mm toward the driver. It's brass and the same diameter as the brass contact ring attached to the horn lever. Anyway, the ring in the steering wheel was barely discernible under 52 years of oxidation. I took a screwdriver and carefully scraped off the crud to expose shiny brass all around. For good measure, I also wire-brushed the contact ring to give it a good shine.
_________________
Better a life-long learner than a life-long know-it-all.

1964 Ghia coupe
1968 Honda CT 90
1980 Honda CT 110

[jovanybg]

This past weekend I've tried to get the horn on my 1971 Ghia to work when depressing the steering wheel button, as the PO had an additional push button mounted on the dash for the horn.
The horn works when depressing the additional button.
Everything is connected through the original relay.

When I took apart the Steering wheel, I found the ground wire disconnected and the contact ring completely disintegrated.
I connected the horn ground wire coming through the steering tube to the horn ring in the designated threaded hole and replaced the contact ring.
All of my through bolts have all the original plastic bushings and washers.
After I installed and put everything back together, I disconnected the ground wire from the additional horn button and connected it to the ground wire coming from the turn signal cable harness (I am afraid that is my mistake?!)[b]
I assembled everything and turned my ignition key - that resulted immediately in horn activated constantly! Now I can drive with my horn sounding all the time ---> people will really pay attention to my car!
What should I check/do next to make the horn working as it supposed to?!

[c21darrel]

The horn button should complete the ground when pushed. If it beeps as soon as the key is on you are already grounded. Find out why.

[jovanybg]

[Ratdog001]

Thank you for your detailed post. Very helpful.

[Figment]

jovanybg, I just had to chase out the "always-on" horn on my '71 last night.

It appears that you, like me, have an aftermarket or otherwise "replacement" turn signal switch assembly.
On mine, I discovered that the horn wire is white not brown as shown in the wiring diagrams.

Get a continuity tester (I use a mulitmeter with beeper function) and a jumper wire. Clip one end to the horn button contact on that switch assembly, and then test each of your "unknown" wires behind the dash to find the correct wire to connect to your horn relay.

Also, my steering column is set up like yours... grounded via the mount on the dash, and also via the steering box. The rubber grommet at the bulkhead is more about an airseal than about ground isolation.

And speaking of grommets, man I'd REALLY want a grommet where those wires pass through the underside of the dashboard there!
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'71 Ghia coupe

[VeloMikey]

[sputnick60]

[VeloMikey]

[sputnick60]

[16CVs]

Wow

Lots of great information here. Turns out I had a Quad whammy.

Relay shot -- opened it up and the coil was burned. I found another 4 pin relay and inserted it into the round relay case and closed it back up. The pins were in the same place as the Fibre insulator. So mounted in the stock case and looks totally factory.

Both horns are no good, neither one will work with power right to them. I will open them and and try to get them working again, or not and buy replacements (Opinions welcome)

The Brown signal which is attached to the bearing was disconnected and melted to the plastic bearing housing, so when you checked it for Continuity from the relay it was fine but was not grounding to the shaft. Pulled it and resoldered it. I think the reason it was loose from the bearing and melted to the housing was that the relay was stuck on and over heated the connector?

There was no wire running from the box up the tube in which to ground the relay. Pulled the tank and made and installed a new wire. Now when you push the horn button the relay clicks but because the horns are dead there is no noise.

Yes a very simple system but when it is all dead it can be a daunting task. It took me about 3 1/2 hours to diagnose and get it to a somewhat functional point. Hopefully now with some functional horns it should all work.

Stacy
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[16CVs]

I opened the horns up and cleaned the contacts. Before taking the Contact plate off I measured the height of the threads on the adjusting screw and used that a benchmark.
Once assembled they would not make noise just kind of vibrated. I hooked 12 volts up to the connectors and used a screwdriver on the adjuster while hot to fine tune the horn and now they work perfectly.
To add insult to injury this car has an EMPI GT wheel which had no contact plate on it, by chance I have a GT wheel hanging around and looked at how it was done and was able to duplicate the contact plate and now it works.
So after a complete build from Relay and Re wire we now have functional horns.

Beep Beep

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[rbsurfguy]

Since I am getting ready to install a new wiring harness, this thread has been really helpful. In conversations on other threads, as well as this one, the braided grounding wire is mentioned, and I asked about it previously. I know it is supposed to mount at the end of the steering coupler bolt, but where does the other end connect to, is it grounded to the frame/pan/front end, or the connector that locks the shaft to the coupler??

Xzener posted this photo to my previous inquiry, would this grounding wire be the equivalent of the proper braided wire?

It would seem to me that the grounding wiring should be connected from the coupler bolt to somewhere else on the steering shaft in order to follow the movement of the shaft itself.

Can someone provide an exact picture of the braided ground wire placement?

Thanks, Jeff
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1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[TDCTDI]

yes.
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