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Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?!
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

earthquake wrote:
Is there room for a roller cam in a 36hp case, I think a Harley Sportser has a roller lifter body that not very big in diameter but the roller is fairly large.


as I recall the harley uses the same as chevy Shocked although some do have a much bigger roller.Im not a harly exspert so i dont knoa a knuckel head from jughead. my brother has 2 of them and Ive got lotsa harly friends but I cant tell one engine from the other, I see the diff but dont know whatchamacallet.not on my list of things that need to be in my head.
you could always get a set of rebuildable roller lifters and take them appart,machine down the bodys to the size you want &reeassemble, chevy .842" ford is a tad biger,there are .904,937,1" many sizes to choose from.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject: lifters Reply with quote

Nope! Just won't work, not enough room and the roller would interfere
with the guide plate. Also can't make roller compatible with 36hp or Porsche
Pre A camshaft.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI folkes. I testet years ago to adapt Roller lifter but i Ended up that It just make Sense in a aloy case wehre you can Weld up Material.
To straighten out the angle of ,if am Right about 7degree per side. Is way to weak.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HBH72 wrote:
PS: has anyone ever made bushings for flat tappet cam followers, in a 36HP engine case, in a way that allows the cam followers to be positioned in straight horizontial line..?


Yes, I played with a single lifter bore on a junk 36hp VW case (bad cam bearing bores), With the goal of straightening out the lifter bore, use a 356-style Porsche lifter, and 356 camshaft. It's much more work than just "making a bushing".

If I remember right, the 36hp lifter bores are 9 degrees. What I did was to first A) plug the stock VW lifter bore with a press-fit aluminum plug. B) In a milling machine, set up the case half with the parting line up, find cam centerline, drill and ream a new, smaller hole for the Porsche mushroom lifter. C) mill a small amount away from the inside of the case, like 1mm, to allow the Porsche cam to fit, near the thrust area, pretty minor operation.

What I wound up with was the mushroom head side of the lifter being well supported, and a Porsche cam that now fit, but the pushrod end of the lifter, not supported at all, which is what I was afraid of. Not enough to support the new side load that the pushrod side of the lifter now sees. I went back to the drawing board, came up with more ideas, but lost interest.

I set the project aside 5 yrs ago, but it might be time to take another look.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Push rod tubes / location Reply with quote

Another item that has not been addressed or maybe I missed it:

PUSH ROD TUBE LOCATION

If the lifter bosses are straightened out, the push rod tubes are now NOT going
to line up with the lifter. The lifter end is going to be way lower from the
hole in the block where the push rod tube contacts the block. Mr. Okrasa
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Push rod tubes / location Reply with quote

Mr. Okrasa wrote:
Another item that has not been addressed or maybe I missed it:

PUSH ROD TUBE LOCATION

If the lifter bosses are straightened out, the push rod tubes are now NOT going
to line up with the lifter. The lifter end is going to be way lower from the
hole in the block where the push rod tube contacts the block. Mr. Okrasa


You're 100% correct, Joe. I thought about it, I planned to make custom bolt-on plates, like Autocraft used on their racecase. In fact JayCee sells replacements for the Autocraft case, but they won't fit a 36hp case. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1095408 I'd make them large enough to completely cover the oem 36hp tube holes, and provide a relocated receptacle for the pushrod tubes. Might have to plug the oem 36hp holes with a press in plug. New plates look to be relatively straight forward mill work, A ball nose endmill works to recreate the spherical pushrod tube sealing surface.

With a lower pushrod location, and the relatively compact nature of the 36hp longblock, the new pushrod angle would obviously require 356/T1 ends, and might require a guy relocate the pushrod tubes in the heads as well. Maybe use a larger diameter T1 o-ringed race pushrod tube like the ones JayCee sells.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

Any updates on 356 lifters problems
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

Don't see this mentioned, but aside from lifter angle and pushrod tube alignment, what about the lobe/crown offset to promote spin? If the lobe and lifter centerlines are aligned, the lifter may not spin, and will fail in short order.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

bugguy1967 wrote:
Don't see this mentioned, but aside from lifter angle and pushrod tube alignment, what about the lobe/crown offset to promote spin? If the lobe and lifter centerlines are aligned, the lifter may not spin, and will fail in short order.


Good point, it's best to bore lifter holes for bushings (vs. reaming), the lifter hole center lines very quite a bit from cam center from the factory, I put them .005 min. off cam center line, then straight with cam so all are the same. Pic is not a 36 case,but principle is the same.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

If the 356 lifters are to long for support why not machine them down to specs so that they have the support ...the perfornance 1600cc/up and type4 guys a while back were modifying 356 lifters aswell for their cases they machined the 356 lifters down so that it can be used in their case 1600/up case lifter bore/lifters are way shorter than the 36hp lifter bore so it can be done with the 36hp cases ...i just think no one thought about shorting the 356 lifters down .even the new 36hp lifters that aapistons sell are longer than stock why didn't they machine them down to as close to the stock 36hp lifter length...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
If the 356 lifters are to long for support why not machine them down to specs so that they have the support ...the perfornance 1600cc/up and type4 guys a while back were modifying 356 lifters aswell for their cases they machined the 356 lifters down so that it can be used in their case 1600/up case lifter bore/lifters are way shorter than the 36hp lifter bore so it can be done with the 36hp cases ...i just think no one thought about shorting the 356 lifters down .even the new 36hp lifters that aapistons sell are longer than stock why didn't they machine them down to as close to the stock 36hp lifter length...


The lifter cup is right at the end of a Porsche lifter. If you machine it down, you'll need to come up with a very clever way to add cups back into the machined lifter.

I'm not sure how much longer a Porsche lifter is, but it can't be by very much. If a little is hanging out beyond the bushing, it's not the end of the world.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

Here's a link to the another forum....so it can give you an idea about cutting the length of the lifters for better support . it will also help on the weight if they can do it to a later engine I think we can also for a 36hp ...👇👇👇
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=60
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Porsche lifters in 36hp case solved?! Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Here's a link to the another forum....so it can give you an idea about cutting the length of the lifters for better support . it will also help on the weight if they can do it to a later engine I think we can also for a 36hp ...👇👇👇
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=60


The only thing I see is about Engineplus lifters, which are a 12mm lifter that is shorter than the 356. I have many of those. I need to look again, but I saw nothing about moving the cup up higher.
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