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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Typically with the normal 411/4122 KYB gas-a-just...there is no nut on the top. The only difference I have found between the Ford Econoline spec shock and the 411/412 shock is the difference in the lower bushing tube width.
There may be some reason they have that nut on top for the econoline. But its not needed for the 411/412.
Question: did these shocks come with the little baggy of hardware? It should have two rubber bushings and two concave washer plates and either one nut which may be a nylon insert lock nut or two nuts ....one normal and one thin jamb nut....and a steel tube that goes on the stud and through the two rubber bushings. Over the years, some shock hardware sets omitted the steel tube bushing allowing the rubber bushings to rest against teh threaded stud. The issue with that sometimes is that when the rubber bushings wear...the concave steel washers rub against the stud and destroy the threads.
I have a set of NOS original KYB gas-a-justs in the box...still compressed with straps at home....at least 1995 vintage....would probably be junk. But I can measure total length later today. Ray |
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Lahti411
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Joined: January 26, 2005
Posts: 223
Location: Lahti, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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My shocks came also that way -no strings keeping it compressed. The top nut (painted silver, on top pin) isn't removeable and i believe it's there just to help tightening the actual top nut.
The shock absorber will fit inside the trailing arm even without compressing it. But as Ray explained, the car should be on stands and should be lifted relatively high so you'll have enough room to push the shock in from underneath the trailing arm.
_________________
My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Lahti411 wrote: |
My shocks came also that way -no strings keeping it compressed. The top nut (painted silver, on top pin) isn't removeable and i believe it's there just to help tightening the actual top nut.
The shock absorber will fit inside the trailing arm even without compressing it. But as Ray explained, the car should be on stands and should be lifted relatively high so you'll have enough room to push the shock in from underneath the trailing arm. |
That silver nut....is interesting. I have never seen that...even on the earlier crossmatch shock from the Econoline.....which I have only had to use one set that were actually crossmatch parts.
So....they have at some point changed the Ford Econolinr shock slightly.
It would be nice if someone could measure the total extended length from the top of that nut where the bottom washer will sit.....to the outside of the bottom eye....and I will compare to the NOS ones I have. I think its important to know if there has been any length change.
Also......are these for the 1/2 ton model or the 3/4 ton? Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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I combed through the posts about rear shocks and decided to use Ford Econoline front shocks. The KYB's were a perfect match, no mods necessary. However, the ride is too stiff for my personal taste. The shocks dont allow the car to 'bounce' over bumps, it basically slams.
Any suggestions for shocks that give a softer ride? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
I combed through the posts about rear shocks and decided to use Ford Econoline front shocks. The KYB's were a perfect match, no mods necessary. However, the ride is too stiff for my personal taste. The shocks dont allow the car to 'bounce' over bumps, it basically slams.
Any suggestions for shocks that give a softer ride? |
Which ones did you use? There are 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton econoline shocks. The 1/2 ton shocks are what you should be using.
The 1/2 ton part # is KG-5410. The 3/4 ton part # is KG-5406.
There should be no issue with the 1/2 ton shock as it is,the exact part made for the 411/412....and your wagon came from the factory with gas shocks. I have run many of them and they are smooth and relatively soft because of the leverage points and design of the type 4 rear suspension.
Also....make note of the date stamped on the tube near the bottom eye of the shock. If they are over about 3 years old its possible that the nitrogen has bled turough the whole oil charge. That can make KYBs rock hard.
Also....make sure that you used both rubber bushings on the top of the shock when you installed it.....one underneath and one inside of the passenger compartment. ...and make sure the top nkt is not so overtightended that it crushes the bushings. Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Check, check and check. I went through everything and I'm running 1/2 ton shocks. I'll be really pissed if they became rock hard from sitting around. Ill have to research date of manufacture. I don't like how rigid it is, when I push down on the tailgate for instance. Thanks. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
| Check, check and check. I went through everything and I'm running 1/2 ton shocks. I'll be really pissed if they became rock hard from sitting around. Ill have to research date of manufacture. I don't like how rigid it is, when I push down on the tailgate for instance. Thanks. |
Were the shocks held compressed with a strap/string while they were in the boxes...or were they fully extended when you got them?
In years past they were held compressed by a string/strap. I have heard they are no longer doing this....and at least on the Gr-2 I have found that to be true. I dont personally know for the Gas-A-just version.
Wait....looking back on your posts.....I see that they came without a strap...right?...and they were not extended?
Thinking back to this conversation.....I find it odd that they did not extend themselves even with Lahti411's point about energizing them.
These sound like they have no gas pressure in them. Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| You are probably right. No pressure. Back they go. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
| You are probably right. No pressure. Back they go. |
Just for posterity....look down near the bottom end. There should be a whole series of numbers. The date should be jn there. Ray |
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lrn2av8
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| Ray, once again, your prior posts have saved me a ton of time. Many thanks. My 412 rides really rough. I'll go after the "easy" solution first with the rear shocks. Al |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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If you have the KYB shocks in the rear and what you mean by running 'rough' is that the shocks are rock hard, you may have the wrong ones in the rear. Per Ray's suggestion, I ordered the KYB gas adjust 1/2 ton (Ford Econoline) shocks for the rear. Well, the ride sucks. Why??
...because they sent me the 3/4 ton KYB's in error and will not exchange them. So, until I can get the cash, I'm stuck with those. The good news however, is they bolt right on with no extra hardware needed. If anyone needs a firmer ride in the rear and wants to swap shocks, IB me. There's less then 50 miles on 'em. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| Did you ever check the production date on those? If they are too old....they will be rock hard no matter what part # they are. The 3/4 ton shocks will be more firm but should not be rock hard. Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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The gentleman on the phone asked me that same question. When I read him the code, he said it was not out of warranty; he did say however, that since they are on the car, I own them.
Further, he confirmed they were for. 3/4 ton Ford, not a 1/2 ton. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
The gentleman on the phone asked me that same question. When I read him the code, he said it was not out of warranty; he did say however, that since they are on the car, I own them.
Further, he confirmed they were for. 3/4 ton Ford, not a 1/2 ton. |
The date codes are usually plainly,stamped....and of course they are not out,of warranty. KYB has a lifetime wear,warranty....wo I,have no idea what was meant by his comment.....but....more than 2-3 years on the shelf anx any,shock will have some issues...eapecially gas shocks. Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| Quote: |
| he did say however, that since they are on the car, I own them. |
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| wo I,have no idea what was meant by his comment |
It means that since I installed them and there is nothing wrong with the product, I own them, he isn't going to take them back. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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Thats kind of what I am getting at. If they are rock hard. ..there IS something wrong with them. Its widely known that KYB gas-a-just..among other gas oil combination shocks......go bad by sitting too long. The nitrogen foams with the oil.....and makes equilibrium on both sides of the piston.
This makes it very hard for the piston to move in either direction. ..primaril6 befause the foam locks the valving up.
The point is....if they have been on the shelf for about 3 years.....there is a very high,chance they are bad. I know.....it sucks.
I have made it a habit of only buying Gas-a-just when I can see them over the counter or the seller will send me a pic of the date stamp on the bottom end. Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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They are from May of 2014. The reason they are rough riding is because they are for a 3/4 ton Ford. If I want a better (smoother) ride, I'll need the 1/2 ton ones. My previous posts said I was using 1/2 ton shocks. (which is what I assumed, because that's what I ordered!)
HOWEVER, when I called and reviewed the code/model number on the shock, (KG-5406) the retailer sent me the wrong ones  . I have a receipt that says 'Econoline 19XX-XX (I forget) 1/2 ton gas-adjust', but I was shipped an Econoline 19XX-XX 3/4 ton gas-adjust'. He acknowledged the mix-up but will not exchange them b/c I installed them.
That is the issue, "I own them". Fantastic. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
They are from May of 2014. The reason they are rough riding is because they are for a 3/4 ton Ford. If I want a better (smoother) ride, I'll need the 1/2 ton ones. My previous posts said I was using 1/2 ton shocks. (which is what I assumed, because that's what I ordered!)
HOWEVER, when I called and reviewed the code/model number on the shock, (KG-5406) the retailer sent me the wrong ones . I have a receipt that says 'Econoline 19XX-XX (I forget) 1/2 ton gas-adjust', but I was shipped an Econoline 19XX-XX 3/4 ton gas-adjust'. He acknowledged the mix-up but will not exchange them b/c I installed them.
That is the issue, "I own them". Fantastic. |
Damn...that sucks. 2014 should be just fine for age. i have used the 3/4 ton and found them to be only marginally stiffer. But hey...could be my tires and other items.
But..they will handle well and not break anything, Ray |
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ClassicCamper
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Joined: December 17, 2002
Posts: 679
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| Thanks Ray, I'll,stick with the 3/4 ton for the time being. Doesn't bother me as much as it did. I'm getting used to them. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Rear shock absorbers...again |
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| ClassicCamper wrote: |
| Thanks Ray, I'll,stick with the 3/4 ton for the time being. Doesn't bother me as much as it did. I'm getting used to them. |
How many miles on them now? They will break in a certain percentage.
All of the gas adjust ride a little high for the first 100 miles or so. Ray |
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