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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| I dont know where you buy your parts, but 4k is deffinatly too much. Pm me your list and your email adress, and i will tell you what the parts cost here. For example, the 2nd gear wheel and synchronizer you dont need new, if you can get a good used one for less than the half price. |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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The 4th fixed gear has the shoulder machined off to convert it from 091 to 091/1 & 094. That's pretty standard inventory shuffling for aftermarket.
The pitting of the teeth is because there is not enough case depth in the surface hardening (heat treatment) of these aftermarket gears.
The 2nd gear engagement teeth are worn on the tips, but not to the point the gear is toast. However, we can't see the drive flanks .. they could be overly worn.
The 1st/2nd operating sleeve is toast. This needs to be replaced.
The chipped edge of the teeth on 1st(?) gear looks similar to an issue caused by sloppy hobbing of the gear teeth. I've noticed this on some new factory mainshafts, where the edge of each tooth requires chamfering with a dremel.
Yes, your parts cost sounds awfully high .. do you need a new R&P too? Let us see the pinion bearing please ..
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6351
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| I'll clarify 4K includes $1,200 ring and pinion $350 aluminum gear housing and potentially $600 for a new lower gear housing, unless i can find one cheaper. So minus those parts I'm around $1800 and climbing. |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| gears wrote: |
| The 4th fixed gear has the shoulder machined off to convert it from 091 to 091/1 & 094. That's pretty standard inventory shuffling for aftermarket. |
This is good info, thank you!
| gears wrote: |
| The pitting of the teeth is because there is not enough case depth in the surface hardening (heat treatment) of these aftermarket gears. |
This comment alone makes me extermely uncomfortable about having any real longevity in one of these transmissions. I realize those gears were in the hot area area near the bearing and that the bearing moved around but they only had around 25K on them. Does anyone make a higher quality gear?
| gears wrote: |
| The 2nd gear engagement teeth are worn on the tips, but not to the point the gear is toast. However, we can't see the drive flanks .. they could be overly worn. |
see below,
| gears wrote: |
| The 1st/2nd operating sleeve is toast. This needs to be replaced. |
Check
| gears wrote: |
| The chipped edge of the teeth on 1st(?) gear looks similar to an issue caused by sloppy hobbing of the gear teeth. I've noticed this on some new factory mainshafts, where the edge of each tooth requires chamfering with a dremel. |
Yes that is actually second gear, how did you know?
Here it is with the mainshaft.
Closeup of the mainshaft gear, I'm starting to not like closeups....
| gears wrote: |
| Yes, your parts cost sounds awfully high .. do you need a new R&P too? Let us see the pinion bearing please .. |
FAG Pinion bearing assuming it is not original
Closeup with fingerprint for scale
Ring Gear closeup
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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Looks like typical SVX-induced 2nd gear wear. 2nd is a fun gear, but repeatedly accelerating a heavy box takes its toll.
Replace the pinion bearing. You're already in there.
Pic of new factory 1st gear tooth with fingernail edge ready to chip off (both sides of every tooth) ..
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com
Last edited by gears on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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What about all this pitting on the flanks of the gears....... 
Can the mainshaft be re-used with that amount of pitting?
Does the pitting on 4th gears and the ring gear warrant a replacement? |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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Oh, the 3rd & 4th gears are toast. The life expectancy of these is apparently only 30K miles.
The pic of the ring gear is too shaded for me to comment on, but the pinion is where to look for max R&P wear.
Regarding 2nd, here's a photo of my 2nd gear that I took out of service. I put this mainshaft aside, in the event that I were to build another trans for my stock syncro.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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ScottShelley
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2012
Posts: 596
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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I read this just as I got home from driving the SVX Syncro. NO LIE...2nd gear is the fun gear! Fun will cost you sometimes!
[quote="gears"]Looks like typical SVX-induced 2nd gear wear. 2nd is a fun gear, but repeatedly accelerating a heavy box takes its toll.
Replace the pinion bearing. You're already in there.
Pic of new factory 1st gear tooth with fingernail edge ready to chip off .. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9605
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| gears wrote: |
| Oh, the 3rd & 4th gears are toast. The life expectancy of these is apparently only 30K miles. |
Can you plz clarify your statement? Do you mean 30K with a 6-cylinder engine? 30K in a trans that gets hot? 30K in a race car?
Even 90K life would barely acceptable, really bad news if true for normal vanagon usage.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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I'm starting to feel $ick again  |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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$yncro $ickness 
Y'all have a Happy Thanksgiving. |
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Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| ejimmi wrote: |
| I'm starting to feel $ick again |
The "$ick" feeling is when you spend all that time removing the gearbox. $$$ Money rebuilding the box and "re-use" some other parts that you "think" are good, time or money installing the box again. Then find out your "re-used" part has failed and compromised your other "new" parts, and you start all over again.
And all this happened in less than 30k miles. 
For me that would add up to every other year I do it all over. Swapping out the tranny is one of my least favorite tasks, now that I have done it (3)three times.
Heat and torque seem to be the common denominator for our woes. If we can keep them cooler, well lubricated, and stress them less, gearboxes should last longer.
So sorry to see the damage in your box. 
Happy Thanksgiving to you all.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| Sodo wrote: |
Can you plz clarify your statement? ... Even 90K life would barely acceptable, .. |
My goal is 80-100K with SVX. IMO, this goal is best met using factory gears, directed oil recirculation, and a sympathetic right foot.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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This Thanksgiving i am "Thankful" for all of the "Giving" from all of you and the information you have provided me on this thread!
I hope everyone has a great holiday!
J |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| gears wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
Can you plz clarify your statement? ... Even 90K life would barely acceptable, .. |
My goal is 80-100K with SVX. IMO, this goal is best met using factory gears, directed oil recirculation, and a sympathetic right foot. |
Precisely how I have logged 100k miles with H6 torque.
I prefer to call it a maintenance throttle. |
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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Are new OEM gears available? Where can i get those?
Also in regards to this thread: What is the proper forum etiquette, If i want to post the reassembly, oil mods, etc., do i start a new build thread, or continue the build with this one? |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle troubleshooting |
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| ejimmi wrote: |
Are new OEM gears available? Where can i get those?
Also in regards to this thread: What is the proper forum etiquette, If i want to post the reassembly, oil mods, etc., do i start a new build thread, or continue the build with this one? |
Personally, I prefer to see the examination, design and build all in one thread.
It really shows the progression of the entire project.
On the other side, this is your thread and you are able to do what ever you would like to do.
You can get in touch with the MODs and change the title to reflect the continuation, if the time to edit the first post has past. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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ejimmi
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2015
Posts: 249
Location: Bellevue
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| Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Syncro Transaxle Troubleshooting and Rebuild |
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I only have one new part so i decided to work on it. Coincidentally it is what started this thread, the main bearing. warning if you are a professional machinist turn away now 
I think i found a use for the old housing…..
Pretty much at capacity on the little minimill. Its taped off because the old bearing is in there. Im not going to reuse it but i like to keep stuff like that around for other projects.
I used 3/16" "just under 5mm" cold roll steel for the plate. The bolts are M8x15 countersunk.
I don't think the bearing is going to be going anywhere.
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