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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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oy.....
stop reading the internetz....
have you ever pulled a fuel line off with gas in the tank? you can drain 2 gal/min with just a 5/16 line.
yes, blue bus uses stock fuel outlet with a return welded to the top of the tank.
get a pump with a 5/16 inlet/outlet and go enjoy life. even at full throttle, I hardly doubt a Subaru would use 2 gallons a minute. even a stock Subaru with an in tank pump uses 5/16 lines front to back.
your only concern would be when low on fuel (I mean like fumes kind of low) and even at that, late FI tanks have a bowl to keep fuel at the outlet where early tanks have the nipple that sticks up an inch or so inside the tank. it wouldn't matter FI or carbs, you'd have fuel starvation if low on fuel.
I don't know...I have 3k miles on mine with no issues. dumpy bus, I put 200+ miles on it before handing it over. again, no issues
as far as a T in line, I suppose in a rare case if the FPR slugged some fuel back into the line and there was some air with it, it would slug some air back to the pump and you may get a stumble, as the only way for the air to go out is via the injector.
on early bay tanks I weld a return to the top of the tank
late bay tanks I just use the OE in/out.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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Fair enough. That thread looks a bit like some speculation going on without tons of actual data... Other than Ray's tests but that doesn't really apply other than his thought that the engine compartment isn't doing much to raise the fuel temps.
I do see how the Y vs. T fittings can make a difference with fuel cavitation.
I like the idea of the larger filter to help prevent this from being a problem.
I suppose in reality, it isn't a lot more work to swap the tank once I have the engine and trans out anyway so I might just go ahead and do it.
We'll see.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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Sloride
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002
Posts: 926
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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I copied the fuel return line from s fuel injection tank and had an inlet added to the bottom of the tank with a line going up into the tank for three to four inches. Had thought of a swirl pot concept but felt it was too complicated and I have never had an issue with air lock or fuel flow. My swap is a 1.8 inline I would assume the fuel pressure is the same as that of the Subaru.
_________________
1972 Westfalia - 1.8 VW in-line h2o conversion
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=
1964 Ruby Red Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705757&highlight=ruby+red |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
oy.....
stop reading the internetz....
have you ever pulled a fuel line off with gas in the tank? you can drain 2 gal/min with just a 5/16 line.
yes, blue bus uses stock fuel outlet with a return welded to the top of the tank.
get a pump with a 5/16 inlet/outlet and go enjoy life. even at full throttle, I hardly doubt a Subaru would use 2 gallons a minute. even a stock Subaru with an in tank pump uses 5/16 lines front to back.
your only concern would be when low on fuel (I mean like fumes kind of low) and even at that, late FI tanks have a bowl to keep fuel at the outlet where early tanks have the nipple that sticks up an inch or so inside the tank. it wouldn't matter FI or carbs, you'd have fuel starvation if low on fuel.
I don't know...I have 3k miles on mine with no issues. dumpy bus, I put 200+ miles on it before handing it over. again, no issues
as far as a T in line, I suppose in a rare case if the FPR slugged some fuel back into the line and there was some air with it, it would slug some air back to the pump and you may get a stumble, as the only way for the air to go out is via the injector.
on early bay tanks I weld a return to the top of the tank
late bay tanks I just use the OE in/out. |
I know how much you love to spoon feed people answers Skills, so it is greatly appreciated. Some day when we have our Swapped buss meetup, I will have have a big bottle of Captain for you.
So my fears have been eased. I am going to just add a return to my early tank and run the stock line diameter to the FI pump.
On a side note: I got a line on an almost new FI tank with sender from CIP1 located 45 min from me for less than 1/2 of the price it was when new. I had concerns but went to have a look.
It's sold as this:
VWC-211-201-075-L - NEW REPRODUCTION GAS TANK - FUEL INJECTED MODELS - BUS 2/73-79 - (WILL FIT 68-1/73 - MUST USE 211-919-051-A FUEL SENDER) - (A30)
So you would think it would work. Well I think it is trying to satisfy to many people and in the process not meeting the mark for anyone.
It has an early M18 thread on connection and 1 late style welded on bent tube, not very close to each other. Like 6" away from each other. Don't think you could connect to both of those through the access hold.
The bigger issue (in my eye) was that it has no "pot" "bowl" thing like a late FI tank should and no "baffle" like my early tank does.
Needless to say I passed.
| Sloride wrote: |
| I copied the fuel return line from s fuel injection tank and had an inlet added to the bottom of the tank with a line going up into the tank for three to four inches. Had thought of a swirl pot concept but felt it was too complicated and I have never had an issue with air lock or fuel flow. My swap is a 1.8 inline I would assume the fuel pressure is the same as that of the Subaru. |
Good to know. Thanks
That's a neat gizmo but let hope I am OK without it. Wonder why it has an expiry date on it?
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
oy.....
stop reading the internetz....
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No kidding, doing to much research on this can be just as dangerous as not doing enough. Everyone has an opinion and they all seem reasonable to "Mikey two four". He is "Joe six pack" alcoholic Canadian cousin.
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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indeed...the internet leaves you with more questions than answers. some pumps are just noisy. mine sings a bit, but it is what it is. I am using a F150 pump...guess what? sounds like a F150 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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lolight70
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2013
Posts: 160
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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Great build and great read,looking at a similar build in my bus.
Thanx for sharing the sleeper beetle video,awesome and very tempting
Go aussie !! |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| lolight70 wrote: |
Great build and great read,looking at a similar build in my bus.
Thanx for sharing the sleeper beetle video,awesome and very tempting
Go aussie !! |
Thanks for watching. You get any better deals down under on Subarugears products. Maybe I should take a winter vacation your way and bring some back in my luggage 
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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Preping for some surgery. Out came the GEX lump.
Say goodbye
My nasty undercarriage
This is not going to go quickly. I never knew that beam was green
Most of the loose stuff removed. Ready to treat the rusty areas
Tank out to get cleaned, painted and a return added. Rust taken care of. Don't know if I'm going to keep the Y pipe or remove it, so for now it stays. And yes that is a sender access hole cut in my deck by the PO  Will be taking care of that eventually.
My wheel well was bashed in by the PO to make space for the second battery, so I will be cutting part of it out and putting in a flat plate. A small cover in the closet and it will make a nice place for the ECU.
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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westys74
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2014
Posts: 39
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| good stuff so far, im taking notes....... |
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northernbus77
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2008
Posts: 196
Location: Yukon
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| westys74 wrote: |
| good stuff so far, im taking notes....... |
x2 I just picked up the exact same donor car For my '77 Westy so I will be watching this thread.
What are your plans for the harness? Will you be sending it out or doing it yourself?
| captincanuck wrote: |
| Great info (as always) Skills; thanks. Might have to pass on the SS header/exhaust then unless I want to have it custom made. Only the duel seem to be available. Not that it is a concern yet, just planning ahead. |
I noticed RMW has an option for single port SS exhaust (for an additional $40.00) here, http://www.rockymountainwesty.com/Subaru_S_S_4_Cylinder_Exhaust_p/rmw-ssedp-4.htm
Thought I would pass it on. |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| northernbus77 wrote: |
| westys74 wrote: |
| good stuff so far, im taking notes....... |
x2 I just picked up the exact same donor car For my '77 Westy so I will be watching this thread.
What are your plans for the harness? Will you be sending it out or doing it yourself?
| captincanuck wrote: |
| Great info (as always) Skills; thanks. Might have to pass on the SS header/exhaust then unless I want to have it custom made. Only the duel seem to be available. Not that it is a concern yet, just planning ahead. |
I noticed RMW has an option for single port SS exhaust (for an additional $40.00) here, http://www.rockymountainwesty.com/Subaru_S_S_4_Cylinder_Exhaust_p/rmw-ssedp-4.htm
Thought I would pass it on. |
I am doing the harness my self. Not really that bad once you remove all the stuff you don't need. Since I'm keeping the Subaru transmission, pretty much all of the harness is going into the bus.
Thanks for the exhaust link. Maybe by the time I need it our dollar will have gotten better.
Don't know if you are considering going with subarugears, but they are having a black Friday sale which started today.
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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northernbus77
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2008
Posts: 196
Location: Yukon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| captincanuck wrote: |
I am doing the harness my self. Not really that bad once you remove all the stuff you don't need..... |
I've got my harness down to the essentials but have been having a hard time finding info on some details before I wrap it up, loads of info for Vanagons and earlier Subaru wiring But later OBD II is elusive. Since we have the same donor....
I got some questions. 
Do I hook up 'ignition on' to YEL/BLU which runs between main relay, ECU and coil/igniter and LT GRN/BLK which runs between fuel pump relay and ECU?
Do I just splice into these wires?
Also, will i need an interface board? https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru-vanagon-conversion-parts/interface-board.html
Which wires do I keep for this?
I've searched and searched but haven't been able to confirm.
If you can shed a little light on this one for me it would be most appreciated.
| captincanuck wrote: |
Don't know if you are considering going with subarugears, but they are having a black Friday sale which started today. |
Thanks for the heads up, It certainly is a sweet set up, however my donor car came cheap with a bad gear box so I will stick with the stock VW trans for now to keep the initial costs down a little. I do plan on running taller tires though. |
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lolight70
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2013
Posts: 160
Location: West Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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I spoke to the owner a while ago,very nice chap and knows his stuff.
Last time i checked the web site it all went to USD$??
We pay the same price as you +freight.
The usual for us down here,pay more than u do  |
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Ride_On
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 385
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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Great build! Following with great interest... Good luck!
_________________
1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG) |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| northernbus77 wrote: |
| captincanuck wrote: |
I am doing the harness my self. Not really that bad once you remove all the stuff you don't need..... |
I've got my harness down to the essentials but have been having a hard time finding info on some details before I wrap it up, loads of info for Vanagons and earlier Subaru wiring But later OBD II is elusive. Since we have the same donor....
I got some questions.
Do I hook up 'ignition on' to YEL/BLU which runs between main relay, ECU and coil/igniter and LT GRN/BLK which runs between fuel pump relay and ECU?
Sounds like you are further into the wiring than I am. I may have to flip this around and ask you some questions I really have no idea on that on yet. I'm saving wiring for a snowy weekend when I dread going under the bus. Not going to be many 16C (61F) November days left this year. I assume you have the wiring diagram?
Do I just splice into these wires?
See above
Also, will i need an interface board? https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru-vanagon-conversion-parts/interface-board.html
I am going to be using it. Unless you plan on welding in the Subaru fuel pump (Lots of people do) and the additional tank sensors, which are emissions related if I am not mistaken
Which wires do I keep for this?
Don't have mine yet. But I would wager that its all the tank stuff. Fuel temp, tank pressure, purge valve. I should have mine in a couple weeks and will update
The way I have been working it out is: I took every wire out (yup) without cutting any. Stripped all the tape/insulation. Removed all the systems that I didn't need AND didn't go back to the ECU.
Power Windows
Door Locks
Lighting
Wipers
ABS
Air Bags
Radio
Kept the rest. Since I am using the Subaru transmission (2 more sensors on that) and starter, the rest will go into the bus.
Figure I will have less chance of F-ing something up this way. For example the Subaru wouldn't start unless it was in N and your foot is all the way on the clutch. Thats 2 more sensors (switches) to worry about. Could you bypass them? I don't want to have to figure that out.
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_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| lolight70 wrote: |
I spoke to the owner a while ago,very nice chap and knows his stuff.
Last time i checked the web site it all went to USD$??
We pay the same price as you +freight.
The usual for us down here,pay more than u do |
That's a shame. Reminds me of when I went to Japan and maple syrup (from Canada) was cheaper than here! WTF I got a big ass maple tree in my back yard. The following spring I made 20L in my apartment 
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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northernbus77
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2008
Posts: 196
Location: Yukon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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| captincanuck wrote: |
Sounds like you are further into the wiring than I am. I may have to flip this around and ask you some questions I really have no idea on that on yet. I'm saving wiring for a snowy weekend when I dread going under the bus. Not going to be many 16C (61F) November days left this year. I assume you have the wiring diagram?
I'm happy to help any way that I can. Here is some info that has gotten me this far, I went through the pages and pages of diagrams and printed of the ones that are relevant.
http://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/mans/99-01%20impreza%20service%20manuals/Diagnostics.pdf
http://www.northursalia.com/modifications/misc/wiring/wiring.html
http://ken-gilbert.com/impreza-manuals
https://www.xcceleration.com/pinouts/99-01%20Impreza/99-01%20Impreza%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf
Although not super helpful to us, the thread below is a great resource for anyone following along who has an earlier Subaru, so I thought I would throw it in.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=136053
Don't have mine yet. But I would wager that its all the tank stuff. Fuel temp, tank pressure, purge valve. I should have mine in a couple weeks and will update
That's kinda what I figured also, When mine arrives I'm sure it will become clear.
The way I have been working it out is: I took every wire out (yup) without cutting any. Stripped all the tape/insulation. Removed all the systems that I didn't need AND didn't go back to the ECU.
Power Windows
Door Locks
Lighting
Wipers
ABS
Air Bags
Radio
I have taken the same approach and feel I'm about 90% there. Once I get the details worked out I'll be sure to pass them along.
We ran out of 16C days a while ago which is why I'm working on the harness inside next to the wood stove  also I want to test it with the engine on the test stand (AKA donor car) before its gone.
Looking forward to more updates.
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captincanuck
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2014
Posts: 730
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Subarugears Bus Build |
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Evicted some former tenants from my beam
Got the wheel well cut and the plate welded on. One last cleaning and ready for some paint. A couple more nice days like this and I might be ready to put the engine in before the snow starts. Thanks El Niņo
_________________
1979 Westfalia "FireFly" Subaru 2.2 with Subaru gears 5spd.
Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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