2165 Engine Build Input Please

[widefivebug]

[widefivebug]

I think I may have just realized the problem you are referring to John. Sitting here reading for hours now and I think your talking about the short rods. Looks like a much better combination is 5.5 inch rods and case with standard height deck.

[vince1]

Std case 78 crank 5.5 rods and B piston will make your deck almost good, maybe a shim under your barrels.
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[widefivebug]

Thanks Vince, I have read through your engine build 3 times now trying to gain knowledge. That's the most impressive build I have read. Period.

[mark tucker]

I would use a84- 86 crank&5.5-5.6 -5.7 rod and a 30mm pump.

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Mark, all you are doing is confusing this guy.

Yes, the 3.5mm case is a mistake. Use a standard deck case.

The FK45 is also too big. I'd drop down to a FK43-44 at the most, since you have 44 IDFs. I'd also lose the straight cuts, but they aren't hurting anything but your wallet.

[mark tucker]

ok Im lost, what does the carbs have to do with the straight cuts?? the least amount of pounding the crank back&forth the better IMHO.cam too.

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with 44 IDFs, and their limited airflow capability, there is no benefit to a cam larger than an FK44. It's like a restrictor plate, though a big one.

And with cams that "small", there is no NEED for straight cut gears. There is no problem if you want to use them, other than the cost. Perhaps you didn't read my post; I thought I was clear.

You absolutely need straight cuts with Chevy springs, but certainly not before.

I just gave the guy my advice, and it had to do 100% to his engine. Mark, your advice had nothing to do with his engine, hence my comment.

[[email protected]]

Those cases are crazy!!! I just had a first time engine builder come in with the same story. Someone sold him a "bolt together" kit with one of these +3.5 deck cases. He put it together and it did run but the compression ratio was 5.5 to 1. We milled the case down to standard deck, fixed his heads, which had 63cc chambers, and he was good to go.

You don't have to ditch the case, just get it machined down to standard deck.
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Those cases are for Mark's engine.
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[widefivebug]

Here's the updated engine build.

Case is getting 3.5mm raised deck machined down this weekend, hopefully. Since I already have the CB lifters I went ahead and ordered the CB 2288 cam. I understand it's a pretty close twin to a Web 86b and that should work well with my Scat 1.4 rockers. As I've been told this combination should be much easier on the valve train and quieter too.

I also made an error in my original post. The heads are the 42 x 37.5 Mid "D" heads not Mini "D" with 55cc Chambers and man are they pretty. Big brown truck visited yesterday.

After talking with several people who have experience with the raised deck cases, what I have learned is the deck height is not consistent. Lo of variation. Is this also what you guys have experienced?

[vwracerdave]

You need to mock up your engine with crank, rods, cylinders and pistons, and measure your actual piston deck height then send the case out to be surface machined to the exact measurements required to get the piston deck height where you want it.
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Maybe he wants to mill it down twice.
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[widefivebug]

[mark tucker]

if you have an undrilled raised case or undrilled unraised case I will trade it for my std deck typ 1 pattern new case. I still dont see how carbs affect the cam crank thrust.somany stock cases have the thrust beat out I wonder why? and why for the duel thrust if it isant needed.......we agree to disagree and thats fine.

[[email protected]]

It doesn't directly, but if the parts are CHOSEN TO MATCH, it absolutely does.

For example, in this case his carbs are small enough that no cam is needed that REQUIRES straight cut gears. If he chose a cam that needed straight cuts (like 86C, FK10, or larger), then his carbs are TOO SMALL. MISMATCH.

All I'm saying is that straight cuts aren't needed for the level of engine he is building. If he wants to do them that's fine, but it's certainly not a "must".

[Bajaman65]

I have had excellent result’s with CB raised deck case’s, the last two were within .001 of the crank center-line. I feel that these case’s are really good for someone that wants to build a custom stroke engine. The engine in my Baja is a 2387 that I used a CB 7mm raised case. I had the Jay Jee long cylinders cut to have extra-long skirts and machined the case deeper to accept them, then I machined the cylinders seat to seat to get the deck height that I wanted. It is really just some simple math but you have to know what you want and what you are checking. Don’t expect to buy a ‘Kit’ and have it all just fit together. A word of warning, on VW case’s the Deck Surface may NOT be parallel the Crankshaft Center-line. It may only be .001 - .008 off, front to rear but most Machine Shops will put the Parting Plane on the Mill Table and cut the Deck Surface giving you a tapered Deck Surface to Crankshaft Center-line. I got one new case a few years ago that had a .025” angle front to rear and I sent it back, it was a New Mag case. Good Luck and Have Fun

[MMCCARTHY]

IMHO I think your combo is pretty well thought out . I think most people who advised you on the parts were more oriented toward performance than drivability . Will it be fun to drive , yes ! The last aluminum case I ordered for a 2387 had .020 difference in deck height from side to side but were parallel . The oil passage holes almost never line up with the oil passages in the main bearings . I would also advise you to install the main bearings into the case, torque it to the specs you will be running and measure/ have someone measure each bearing bore and mic the crank . Subtract crank measurement from the bearing measurement and this will give you your bearing clearance. Do not be fooled into believing because the case is new and the crank is new that it will be ok . Using a set of straight cut cam gears has no negatives ( I actually like the sound on my 2387 street engine ) and they virtually eliminate the need for dual thrust cam bearings which makes assembly easier. I hope you have fun with your new engine. Mike McCarthy
My street car,
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