big rubber bumper stop on front suspension

[CHenige]

We have the king pin front suspension. On the stop that sits in the middle of the trailing arms there is a large rubber hose thing that looks to dampen the suspension at full jounce/rebound? Is this a production piece? Is it needed / desired?

[mtnroads]

it is the stock stop that limits travel to protect shocks from over traveling.
most off road cars remove or modify for more travel. shock length must be increased (mounts changed) and a new stop should be fabricated.

here you can see stops removed, im going to use a strap to limit downward travel.
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pax
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished....

[CHenige]

But is the rubber thingy production and needed? Seems like it is not even doing anything in this photo.

[2RL]

That one is worn out.

Without the stop the suspension will tend to bang really hard off of the arm that the rubber piece mounts onto whenever the suspension hits the travel limits. The stoper just cushions the arm so its not such a harsh stop .

If you decide to replace them (which you realy ought to do unless you're going to modify the suspension and cut those arms off) make sure to lubricate the Inside of the new bump stops with something like dish soap otherwise their a pain to get over the bump on the end of the arm that holds them in place.

New ones are still available
http://www.appletreeauto.com/RUBBER-SUSPENSION-STOP-111-405-273/

[CHenige]

All the diagrams I see do not show the rubber bumper. I will get two.

[Vanapplebomb]

Yes, the rubber bumpers are factory stock. Look closer at the diagrams, they are in there.

by the way, nice to see another Michigan guy around the forums!
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[CHenige]

Detroit suburbs. But have a place east of west branch.

[dustymojave]

The stock bump stops work for both up and down, they limit travel to about 6".

This is how I've modified the stop on my Baja.

Mine also work for both up and down. I get 10.25" of travel with the original 800,000 mile+ beam. The ends of the stops were cut down and pieces of 1/4" bar stock welded on for contact pads. It would be a hard stop compared to the stock stops, but it's never hit the stops since I modified them.
There are urethane replacements available for the stock cone. They are a REAL pain to install.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[CHenige]

I am looking at cutting off the front rebound stop to get a bit more travel. Any ideas on what to do? Just cutting it off will put all the forces into the shock so I think at least longer shocks with revised stops? Lightweight front on a sand rail.

[Third]

Depends on a few factors, I guess.

A lot of front ends (A-arm, long travel, even many mid-travel do away with the stops and substitute limiting straps to limit rebound (the downward drop) so as not to damage the shock(s).

If you cut it off, straps are advised, and a LOT less expensive than replacing a shock...

IMO

[DHale_510]

If you use the shocks for limiting travel they will break or at least lose their shock properties when the guts get smooshed. Shocks change the rate of spring compression but do not replace springs. Lots of light sand cars run no front shocks, but most still have travel limiters in both directions.
Straps work easily for extension limits but compression stops are always important and shocks are not good for this. Most strut and coil over designs use a compressible bumper on the shock rod under the spring. Not always visible because the spring hides it. These work when the shock mount is screwed to the shaft, not so handy when it is welded on. VW used this on early ball joint beams but those seem totally gone now.
Dennis

[Vanapplebomb]

Cut it off and weld it above the upper arm to keep the shocks from getting smashed up from overstroking.

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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[dustymojave]

I just updated my post above showing how I trimmed the ends of the stock snubbers to get 10.25" of wheel travel on my Baja. As I said before, it works for both bottoming and topping out.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[CHenige]

Thanks dusty. That is what I am looking to do. Did you really need to add the front gussets?

[dustymojave]

I've seen the stock snubber posts bent on cars that were street used only. So I felt it would be wise to add support for my car that gets used VERY hard offroad.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[bikesndbugs]

what i did not exactly like dustys as mine were cut off but similar.
haven't really put them to the test yet.

[CHenige]

I have my grinder and my sawzall. Will see how much I need to remove to get almost full travel of shocks. Next time I go to welder put in some gussets.

since I have stock length shocks will not be taking much off. Ha anyone wrapped an arm with rubber or polyurethane to have take out the metal to metal hitting?

[bikesndbugs]

I thought about doing something like that I was considering an old bike tube ziptied to the arm

[CHenige]

I do not think an inner tube would last long, though you could just move it to a new contact spot.

I am on the look out for some kind of harder rubber or plastic or polyurethane in a tube or cylinder shape. drill a large hole lengthwise thru it and then cut it in half lengthwise.

[dustymojave]

Way back when,my Hi Jumper as you see it in my avatar, had droop stops made of heavy wall 1" OD tube with a gusset opposite the point where the arm made contact. To cushion the stop, I had a piece of hydraulic hose. Worked fine for a few years. But one time I hit a diagonal rain ditch real hard (Yes...there ARE flash floods in the desert that can make some pretty serious ditches) and broke the shock on the left front and tore off the droop stop. The shock shaft looked like a paper clip with the end of the cylinder on it. I had that shaft hanging on the wall of my garage for about 30 years. Strangely, it didn't hurt the spindle arms, shock mounts, torsion leaves, or anything else. The stop and the shock ate the hit.

I welded a new stop back on it. But after that beam got wasted in a quadruple endo when the car was at flat-out speed, the replacement beam was another stock linkpin beam as built beams like we now know as Warrior Beams were not on the market. It got kit 8" towers with the kit bump stops pre-welded. But they limited the bump travel way too much and the shock bodies hit the back side to limit droop travel. So I modified them to allow the travel I wanted.

If you get a "Warrior" beam or tower kit, don't assume the stops they come with are correct right out of the box. "Cycle" the suspension with the torsion leaves out, or the springs off the coilovers if you use those to make sure the stops are where they should be.

Travis, your stops are made so a corner of them are the contact point for the arms. That's not good either. It will tend to break the arm there and if not, it will blunt the contact point on the stop to change the travel. The contact point should be flat to the arm. Many Class 9 race cars have a similar triangle of 1/4" plate welded to the side of the tower. But they build it so the lower arm contacts the lower side of the triangle on bump, and the upper arm contacts the upper side of the triangle. But the arms hit flat to the plate stops. Works the same for link pin as it does for ball joint, but the location and shape of the triangle is a little different.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.