Fuel filler neck component pictures

[raygreenwood]

Here are the pictures of the fuel filler neck. It comes in two metal sections and uses three sections of the same diameter hose as type 3.

The real problematic part is the very bottom hose section. Its stupidly short. This makes it hard to clamp, bend just the small amount it needs to etc. If you make it any longer....it wants to buckle a bit and makes getting the angle of the upper filler neck difficult....which once bolted in place puts a lot of stress on the whole assembly. You can at best...make the lower hose part maybe...1/4" to 3/8" longer.
You will have to shorten the middle hose segment by the same amount to keep the length correct and make sure that the bracket for the upper tube meets up where it should.

Here is the whole mess. The steel parts have been redone in baked VHT spray epoxy. I dont know how it will hold up. Time will tell.

The main filler neck. You can see the hold down tab welded on and just barely see the 14mm vent hose connection on the back side.

Next in line is the 4.5" section that connects the upper filler tube to the steel bend. You can see that it had a rubber sleeve around the outside from the factory. This is to keep abrasion down from gravel etc. off the wheel...and to strengthen the hose from the very slight bend it gets when attached to the curve tube and the whole mess levered into place once attached to the gas tank.

Next in line is the curved tube...a really nicely shaped part as well as the upper tube. These parts are really heavy duty.

The final and most problematic part is the attachment sleeve to the fuel tank nipple. As you can see...its short and hard to deal with.

Above are some shots immediately after removing the assembly from the car in the still assembled condition with a few more better measurements of the hose sections.

Above is a picture of the tank after stripping. The hole in the center is for the fuel gage. The top of the picture is forward in the car. You can see at lower right the 14mm vent hose connection and at lower left is the 3mm nipple.

For giggles...here is the tank after stripping and acid washing. I am purposely allowing it to flash rust so that.....

The Jasco metal prep phosphoric acid has something to convert before I primed and painted it with epoxy. In retrospect...the epoxy will probably have better bite if I had not primed the tank. I may still strip it again and repaint. But it should be fine as its in a rather protected environment.

In this view...you can see the manufactured date I found on the tank edge. This picture is after priming.

Ray

[Lahti411]

The filler necks i have are all made of one steel pipe that has a bend in the lower part. As the one-piece-neck is so stif i haven't had any problems replacing it. This is again something i had never seen: a two piece fuel filler neck in a type 4!
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[ClassicCamper]

That is great, I wish I had one steel pipe to fix this. Ray, again...this is absolutely great intel, since I dont have the continuous steel hose.

Are there any tricks for the vent lines?
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1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

Well, I'm going to attempt replacing the fuel filler neck components with the front-end components intact. A few questions

1) How low should the fuel level be prior to removing neck? 1/4 tank Ok?

2) Where do I access the vent lines?

3) Do you recommend any vendor who sells a quality Type 3 kit inclusive of all the lines?

Thanks, - Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks much Ray. Im having a blast with this car. No project is simple on it, however, once I tackle one item the reward is great. Desperately looking for a dash oard. Do not have the skill set at all to restore one unless its in fairly decent shape.

That is my next big challenge. Any leads would be great. No bites in WTB.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

Greetings- One of my favorite posts as I'm getting ready to undertake this operation.

A few quick questions:

1) I saw the length of hose ISP west sells for the filler neck. How many lengths do I need?

2) I'm going to attempt this with tank in car. (I know..). That said, how low does the fuel tank level need to be prior to removing bottom most section of hose?

3) Any idea where to get that rubber collar that goes around filler neck by cap?

Thanks, - Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[Lahti411]

Rubber collar:
http://www.vwispwest.com/311821443A.html?page=1
_________________
My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks much! Make that 2 remaining questions.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

You only need one length of the type 3 hose from ISP west. You will cut two sections from it and have a small amount left over. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Great -- my final question is how low does the fuel level need to be prior to removing the bottom-most piece of hose?

Thanks, -Ron
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks to all for the guidance regarding the necessary fuel filler hoses. I received the following parts yesterday:

Since I'll be taking the trunk felt/carpet out in prep for paint, this will be a great opportunity to begin this hose replacement process. Ray, I recall you mentioning in a previous post that you may be able to give me some insight into the size(s) of the flexible vent tubes as your front end is off. If you are able to do this, kindly forward. If not, no biggie- I'm sure that I'll be able to match up upon removal.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

I will have the hose sizes to you shortly. A suggestion from experience.

Get some cheap yellow tracing paper from hobby lobby or some seamstress pattern makijg paper and make patterns of the trunk felt before you remove them. You will likely have to replace the felt on the strut towers. I have never been able to get those out in one piece consistently. Ray

[raygreenwood]

The parts book lists the fuel tank vent hoses in millimeter length:

The lengths are:

For the vent hose from the T fitting on top of the tank to the aluminum connector line with the nipple to the right side of the car

340mm up to chassis # 411 2100 000

230mm x 3/16" ID for chassis # from 412 2000 001.

It lists the T fittiing that goes into these hoses as 2.5mm. So the hoses are listed as 4mm OD x 2.5mm ID.

The skinny vapor hoses up top that go to the T fitting and the top corner of the tank should also be 4.0mm x 2.5mm ID and the lengths are 970mm and 1030mm.


I have found that 3mm OD hoses "work" but they can have a short life because they have to stretch so hard on the nipples that they crack as they shrink with age.


The larger vapor hoses that go to the canister or from the canister to air cleaner and cooling manifold are 12mm ID with 3.3mm wall section.

Ray

[a.wilson]

Ray.. How well is the epoxy paint holding holding up?
Any signs of the gas causing any problems?
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Be kind to all critters. America's "H8TERZ" can drink sludgy used Motor Oil!


oemwolf

[raygreenwood]

[a.wilson]

[kgarchivinusa]

Some NOS fuel tank parts

(2) 411 201 137 A
(4) 411 201 143
(7) 113 201 157
(8 ) 411 201 179
(10) 411 201 183
(16) 411 201 225
(20) 113 201 551 H

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1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]