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Most reliable engine conversion
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

Wrong.

LT-1- or ZR-1 SBC , bolted in Midships, hooked to a 700 R-4.
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jimf909 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

newfisher wrote:


For me it cam down to: HOW MANY BROKEN VANAGONS HAVE I HEARD ABOUT VS. HOW MANY BROKEN SUBARU'S

The answer was the decision


vs. Bostigs vs. SAH 1.8s

But there's a much larger sample size of wbxers. Add to that, the fact that conversions are probably maintained better than wbxers (many complaints of failed wbxers are from people driving poorly maintained POS, while the dudes with $10K - $20K in their conversion are probably gonna be more diligent in maintenance).

That said, I followed your formula, added in some other considerations and landed on the Bostig (may now go with an SAH1.8 but I still like the Bostig a lot).
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
As has been mentioned, the OP's question is perfectly valid, but there's literally no objective means of answering it with anything other than a mishmash of opinions, anecdotes and regurgitations of both. This place traffics in the theatre of the subjective, so it's the last place I'd look for facts and definitive answers presented for objective consideration. Since the site is poorly organized and the search feature is useless, the FAQ sticky is the OP's best bet for sifting through threads and drawing conclusions predicated on his/her own personal requirements overlayed upon the anecdotal evidence presented therein. That's a fact Jack



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jimf909 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

^^^ I think it's one is par for the course compared to what you'll find in the FAQs. At least it hasn't gone to hell with comments about ground clearance, cost, disparaging comments about vendors, etc.

...yet (but the night is young)
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
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t3 kopf
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

My complete DIY ej22 conversion cost me around 3000. A rebuilt WBX with a warranty of only 12000 miles cost 1500 bucks more than that. Lots of stories of exploding GW rebuilds here. Just my 2 cents.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
If the WBX're is so great why are there so many conversions?


I am not sure there are so many. Yes, there are a lot of conversions among Samba contributors but talking to Vanagon owners on the road I find many are not only unaware of conversions but most have never even heard of the Samba.

It is easy to get misled by the very small portion of Vanagon owners who show up here. To the Vanagon world at large, the WBX is the engine.
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
If the WBX're is so great why are there so many conversions?

I am not sure there are so many. Yes, there are a lot of conversions among Samba contributors but talking to Vanagon owners on the road I find many are not only unaware of conversions but most have never even heard of the Samba.
It is easy to get misled by the very small portion of Vanagon owners who show up here. To the Vanagon world at large, the WBX is the engine.

Actually if you spend some time on other sites like the 80-90 forum you hear about conversions. (diesel is big over there) Also, many more people who do not post on the Samba but have conversions. The original Yahoo Subaru group has quite a few members.
There's a reason companies like Small Car and RJES can afford to offer new purpose cast bell housings for the Subaru/Vanagon conversion.
Bostig has close to 500 customers, the bulk of which don't post here.
There are a dozen companies offering conversion options for the WBX'er, petrol and diesel.

While there may be more unconverted vans than converted the numbers are significant and an indication of disaffection with the old WBX. Again I will ask, if the WBX'er is so great, why are there so many conversion options?
Please remember that I believe it's your van and your decision which way to go. Quality conversions are not cheap and not for everyone, but there's a reason why they have been developed.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

The topic is about reliability, not likeability.
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I had to actually open this topic on Pg 4 here just to see why this hasn't been locked yet.; good job you guys ( not sarcastic)
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I try to avoid threads like this because they almost always become unpleasant very quickly. But after scanning this one, I do have to point out that this thread was doomed from the very beginning because no one is in a position to say which conversion is most reliable unless they have owned all of them and logged significant miles on each of them. Without that consistency, it's impossible to give a good recommendation based on what you've experienced with your conversion vs what you've heard about someone else's experience with another conversion, or worse yet, what you've heard about what someone else heard about someone else's conversion.

The bright side to this is that all the popular conversions (1.8T, Subaru EJ, and Bostig Zetec) are all excellent when done right. With that in mind, you can pretty much let other factors such as cost, packaging compromises, and power output guide you to the right decision for your needs.

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Waldi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

If you want more reliability as a WBX you need a engine with less parts that can fail than on a WBX.

Mostly fails are electronic.
A piston is still a piston.
Old ingeniering was to build parts for reliabylity, longlivity.
New engeniering is to build parts for shortlivity. Buissness.

I work with all kind of van.
I see owners going back from conversions to "stock" engines.
Subi to mTDI, due to bad milage and low power gain.
2E to WBX (DJ) due to no power gain and same milage. (oldtimer plates)
TDI back to JX, AAZ due to low power gain, but more expensive electronic parts to fail, and no oldtimer plates.

The best conversion when it comes to reliability and longlivity and $ is a mTDI or a 2E.
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tschroeder0
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I haven't had them all but so far a wbxer, suby and now Bostig.
People still look at.me funny when I say it but based on miles(and I have only had the bostig for about 6 mos) my wbxer was by far the most reliable, 2 breakdowns that I could not fix on the road. Despite huge amounts of traveling(my last trip ~15,000miles to Alaska) I have and will always maintain that a well maintained wbxer is a great little engine.
That said, I found the suby reliable after the issues were sorted out (I had an oil burner that required new rings etc...) I liked the power and torque of the suby very much.
The bostig turbo took me a while to get used to as far as the torque curve and where to drive it. I have driven.it across country from Seattle to Boulder and many trips into the mountains and it has been rock solid so far.
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nemobuscaptain
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

Quote:
The only transplant I can say you see the least amount of problems with, or mentioned ;here anyway is the... Zetec..

Ive been to VW events since the 80s and seen probably hundreds of conversions. Ive never once seen someone running a Ford Focus engine or spoken to anyone who wanted one. I have seen one w a Pinto engine though.

For me its pretty simple, if I couldnt convert the engine I would have never purchased another Vanagon. As for objective data regarding reliability, Consumer Reports rated the Vanagon as one of the worst in history. Luckily the Yugo saved the day and won worst. The Vanagons reputation for lack if reliability has little to due with their age. In fact you could argue they are better now than new due to better coolant, head gasket materials and sealants.

In the 80s you could buy 30,000 miles Vanagons with blown head gaskets for a song any day of the week.
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Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KevinHornbuckle
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I'm working slowly on a conversation to a 4.3 GM v6. Get rid of the transaxle and have a drive train which is strong, reliable, and uses all standard available parts... except for a custom transfer case.
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I have never found air-cooled engines in a Bay Westfalia or in a Vanagon Westfalia to be long-lasting engines. If never driven over 60 mph and maintained religiously, the result likely would be better, but I cannot drive in that way.

I know the OP is not enquiring about what air-cooled engines are reliable, but my point is that what is "reliable" for one person may be a disaster for another person. I swapped out the factory 1.7 litre ( Shocked ) engine in my 1973 Westfalia with a carbureted Ford 2.3 inline 4 engine (95 horsepower) in the mid '80's. It seemed like a screamer by comparison to the Type 4 VW engine. It was 100% reliable, but it was also powerful enough to keep up with traffic.

My Westy Syncro WBX engine was still wheezing along at 225,000 miles with only an AFM replacement and cleaning of engine bay grounds as problem areas. I converted to a Subaru SVX engine in 2012. I like the conversion and it has been rock-solid on reliability.

Lessons learnt:

1. Except for Bostig and Stephan's Auto Haus (the 1.8T conversion kit), no conversion parts provider has comprehensive instructions;
2. Even for someone with an automotive and/or fabricating background, all the other "kits" will involve unforeseen trimming/cutting/kludges. This is to be expected.
3. My SVX engine is too heavy. It affects the compression and rebound of the suspension and I would not do this conversion again for that reason - - but that's really the only reason.
4. the weight of your rig and Westy vs. Non-Westy makes a huge difference. A stock tin-top 2.1 Vanagon powers up hills quite nicely. A loaded Syncro Westy - - not so much.
5. If you are good at roadside or trail-side repairs and they don't bother you too much, you don't have to replace everything with new. You won't need a brand-new or rebuilt conversion engine either. But if you want like-new reliability, you need to do your conversion like you are responsible for a warranty. For me, although I can repair almost anything almost anywhere, that does not mean I like doing so, especially on my vacation. So I went "whole hog" with a low-mileage engine, replaced head gaskets and every other gasket and seal, new timing belt, serp belt, yada yada.

So, really, it's a question of how much uncertainty you can live with. Every popular swap will have more power than a stock WBX and likely get slightly better fuel mileage to boot. You will never, however, no matter which engine you choose, say to yourself "I wish I could have my WBX back". The power and smoothness of all the main swaps bringing your vehicle into the 21st century is simply that good.

Having said that, if you never sip the Koolaid - - and you get a slightly modded 2.2 WBX like Rocky Jennings and Chris Corkins build, you will be very happy with both the power and the reliability of your WBX.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I have never heard of Vanagon syndrome with a conversion. Just the precept behind Vanagon syndrome which is a mysterious affliction of the WBX that can be any number of issues. Some are so invested in their chosen path they defend it beyond reason or rhyme. It becomes a self fulfilling prophesy with an ability to ignore any data that does not agree with their choice.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

I just realized that I actually chimed in on a YAECT.

Yechhh. Shame on me. Embarassed

Never again . . . until the next time.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

So .... was the most reliable question answered ? Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
If the WBX're is so great why are there so many conversions?


I am not sure there are so many. Yes, there are a lot of conversions among Samba contributors but talking to Vanagon owners on the road I find many are not only unaware of conversions but most have never even heard of the Samba.

It is easy to get misled by the very small portion of Vanagon owners who show up here. To the Vanagon world at large, the WBX is the engine.


I'd agree with this too. I'd bet less than 10% of vanagons on the road have been converted. It's really a pretty small number.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Most reliable engine conversion Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
If the WBX're is so great why are there so many conversions?

I am not sure there are so many. Yes, there are a lot of conversions among Samba contributors but talking to Vanagon owners on the road I find many are not only unaware of conversions but most have never even heard of the Samba.
It is easy to get misled by the very small portion of Vanagon owners who show up here. To the Vanagon world at large, the WBX is the engine.

I'd agree with this too. I'd bet less than 10% of vanagons on the road have been converted. It's really a pretty small number.

Even if you're right, this is not a small number. Consider how many other vehicles from the 80's and 90's with that percentage of engine conversions. I also believe that as more years pass even more vans will be converted.

There's an ongoing post lately about oil consumption in the WBX'er, "one quart per 1000 miles is normal" Those numbers seem about right based on my experiences with four WBX powered vans.
I put 45 thousand on a used Zetec without ever adding oil (outside oil changes obviously) So, in the same amount of distance the WBX would have consumed 45 quarts of oil! That's 9 oil changes worth of oil spewed on the road or burned into the air. Shocked
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