| Author |
Message |
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
 |
|
Skid plate is on, all welded up. Just applied a fresh coat of 2 part epoxy primer. Tomorrow I'll undercoat it and flip it over to start putting her back together
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
Undercoated...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
Right side up again...y'all naysayers aren't ready.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
To each his own, but if you ever nose it on a landing its going to be a lawn dart.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Is this for killing the motor in the rail in front of you? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Sandjunky wrote: |
| To each his own, but if you ever nose it on a landing its going to be a lawn dart. |
Is that worse than snapping a front wheel off in the middle of nowhere? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| CHenige wrote: |
| Is this for killing the motor in the rail in front of you? |
Duh! Everybody knows that adding a pushbar only means you no longer have to follow at a safe distance or use sound judgement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Doctordreeann wrote: |
| Sandjunky wrote: |
| To each his own, but if you ever nose it on a landing its going to be a lawn dart. |
Is that worse than snapping a front wheel off in the middle of nowhere? |
Yes, much much worse, and much more likely to happen. Your wheels are soft bumpers attached to springs that swing away from impacts. Ridged horns welded to your frame only need to catch a tree by a couple on inches and all that force is going straight into your frame.
Like I said, I like the way it looks, I like the idea of a weaponized vehicle, but you really really don't want your vehicle to stick when it runs into things, you want it to glance off. Those horns will turn a glancing collision into a full head on.
The other problem is that the part of your front end that is most expensive and most likely to hit things, your lower torsion tube, you have left unprotected even though you have a skid plate in front of it and behind it. I would bolt another plate over it between your front bumper and floor plate.
On a lighter note, I really could have used that wire strike system. Yesterday I was shooting through the woods and suddenly I found myself with the front wheels up in the air and sparks raining down on me.
Turns out there was a power line to someone's shop running through the tree's about 4' of the ground. It caught on my overhead lights which stripped the insulation off a section and shorted out the cable before the cable went taut and pulled me to a stop.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
I've seen buggies nose down at an angle after launching off a hill on to a plateau. Every time a front wheel hits first, the tie rods snap and the control arms buckle. I would have to come down off a jump near vertically to yard dart this thing.
What kind of trees are you talking about? 100 year old oaks? You aren't going to glance off of one of those at all. I looked at the picture of your rig that you put on my thread. That flat front bumper with no support angles outside of your torsion tubes would flex right into your wheel immediately upon such an impact. You have "structural" support bars running in parallel on your tree bars. Those tree bars will fold flat against your frame in any situation where tree bars would actually be necessary. Hell, your forward overhead bar looks like a piece of C channel that you notched out so you could fold it down to tie to your frame.
I don't mean to be rude, but I guess I need to go ahead and clarify what I'm going for with this build. I'm letting my imagination run wild! This is a low budget one of a kind project. I'm gonna drive this joker on the street, around my farm, and probably hit some light trails. If I wanted a tank, I would build a tank. As it sits now I guarantee I could smash through a field of saplings with zero negative effects. If I wanted a run of the mill rail I could have kept on riding what I had!
I don't need comments about how I should plug the open tubes that were previously cut off, or how I should add more angles in open spots, or how I shouldn't run a 30 thousand dollar oil cooler, or how the sickest pushbar you've ever seen isn't really gonna be effective against a frickken mature coniferous forest! Duh! I said I'm new to VW, I didn't say I was new to metal or gravity or newtons laws. Let's get real
On a lighter note...yes, I will have one or two wire cutters left over |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
Today I added a bunch of solid flatbar above the beak to give myself a platform to mount the front wire cutter. I cut a sliver of the leftovers from the floor pan, rolled it around the face of the oil cooler shroud and welded on some expanded metal to protect the cooler. I also cut off my shift knob and attached a pilots collective stick to it to make the sickest shifter ever! And yes, I am going to wire in a couple of the switches just to take this build to the next level of awesome. I would have welded in the shifter box, but realized I was lacking the shift box bushing, so I couldn't just toss it in all willy nilly. Here's what I got so far
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Doctordreeann wrote: |
I've seen buggies nose down at an angle after launching off a hill on to a plateau. Every time a front wheel hits first, the tie rods snap and the control arms buckle. I would have to come down off a jump near vertically to yard dart this thing.
I don't need comments about how I should plug the open tubes that were previously cut off, or how I should add more angles in open spots, or how I shouldn't run a 30 thousand dollar oil cooler, or how the sickest pushbar you've ever seen isn't really gonna be effective against a frickken mature coniferous forest! Duh! I said I'm new to VW, I didn't say I was new to metal or gravity or newtons laws. Let's get real
On a lighter note...yes, I will have one or two wire cutters left over |
Simmer down brush fire! I was joking about the lawn dart... you know because it looks like a dart with the point in the front.
I mentioned the holes in the frame rails, because I noticed they were left open by someone else who apparently knew enough about metal work to raise the roof, but not realize the issues with leaving a water trap open. Didn't mean to insult your intelligence and I definitely didn't mean to minimize your obvious skills.
You're going odd ball and doing things different, which is fine, but this is the interweb and its going to draw admirers, advice, and critics... all of which can and most of which probably should be taken with a grain of salt. As long as you're happy and doing it how you want then who cares, right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Are you going to paint military theme? That would top it off! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Quote: |
What kind of trees are you talking about? 100 year old oaks? You aren't going to glance off of one of those at all.
|
Mostly pine trees of various ages and diameters. It only takes about a 4" diameter one to ruin your day.
| Quote: |
I looked at the picture of your rig that you put on my thread. That flat front bumper with no support angles outside of your torsion tubes would flex right into your wheel immediately upon such an impact.
|
Yep that is how I designed it. A bumper needs to be weaker than what is behind it in order to function. Otherwise you end up with a straight bumper and a bent frame...or broken neck.
This has actually happened to me already when I tried to hop over a 10" diameter log and ended up bouncing diagonally sideways right into a small pine tree. Bumper bent right back the way I intended it to. You probably can't tell from the pics I have but its even weaker than it seems, after mounting it I decided that it was too rigid compared to my frame and I cut out several sections from the back to turn it from a rectangular tube into U channel at the sides so they could bend. I was really glad I did it to after that happened and I saw how easily pretty thick steel bends when hits a tree at just a few MPH.
I need to take some updated pictures but its now replaced with a 3" diameter tube which turned out to be lighter and stronger but hopefully not too strong. I just want it to A, be legal, B, protect the fenders from light impact. Heavy to moderate impact I want to deform the bumper, soaking up as much energy as possible and hopefully saving the frame, I also want the ends to bend backwards and for diagonal surfaces so if I just catch a corner on something (more likely than a dead center impact) there is some chance of glancing off to the side.
Yep. the tube steel bumpers I have on my Subaru and my pickup are also engineered to bend before the frame behind them does.
I'm an EMT and firefighter, I respond to a couple dozen car wrecks a year (small town) and get to see structural safety features at work all the time. Crumple zones are pretty cool. They actually deform in ways that form glancing surfaces that direct the force of impact out away from the important stuff.
| Quote: |
You have "structural" support bars running in parallel on your tree bars. Those tree bars will fold flat against your frame in any situation where tree bars would actually be necessary.
|
I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The tree bars are triangulated but in any case, I sure hope the would fold up if I hit anything too hard, like the bumper, they are just there to deflect the buggy away from whatever it hit.
| Quote: |
Hell, your forward overhead bar looks like a piece of C channel that you notched out so you could fold it down to tie to your frame.
|
Yep. Its light gauge 1/8 thick 1x1" angle iron Its just there to provide a flat surface to support the windshield. Its not structural, heck, its just spot welded on. Its backed by proper 1.5" tubing.
| Quote: |
| I don't mean to be rude, but I guess I need to go ahead and clarify what I'm going for with this build. I'm letting my imagination run wild! This is a low budget one of a kind project. |
No, I get it. Its exactly what mine is, believe me, it doesn't conform to serious builders specs either. I don't race, I don't live within hundreds of miles of dunes and compared to almost all of the other rails you well see here mine is severely overbuilt. The vast majority of sand rails don's have a bumper at all.
My philosophy of use is probably closer to yours than most. The reason I even bother posting on this crazy project is because I like it, in principal. Most people here are just going to shake their heads and move on.
| Quote: |
I said I'm new to VW, I didn't say I was new to metal or gravity or newtons laws. Let's get real
|
Getting real is exactly what we are talking about. There is nothing wrong about having an art project on wheels but first it has to be a safe and functional vehicle. I don't know what your background is, but like I said, part of mine is pulling dead people out of smashed cars. It may have made me a little jaded about some things.
Now, if its supposed to be a weapon (I fully support weaponized vehicles) Its a perfect shape for hooking into something and snagging on it. The problem is that its on a vehicle that is about half the weight of a compact car and probably doesn't even have as much HP. I love the idea of weaponized buggies but they are just not the right vehicle to turn into a battering ram either practically or thematically.
Obviously, its already done and you aren't going to change your mind but these are the reasons why your getting flack. Its not that we are against cool one of a kind things, we are just against bad and or dangerous designs.
You also have to realize, from time to time there are some real idiots here making outright death traps or things that are going to meltdown the first time they try to drive them. A year or so ago there was a new guy who built a really nice looking performance engine...in fact it was so pretty that he decided he wasn't going to put any of the cylinder cooling tins on it (since you know, Harely's don't have cooling tin) This is basically like building a water-cooled car with no radiator because you think they don't look good. Yeah, after everyone lost their shit trying to convince him that his engine would last about fifteen minutes after he got it running and him getting super defensive because he had already done all the work. Eventually he just stopped responding and we never heard form him again, probably because about fifteen minutes after he started his engine he cracked all his cylinders.
Obviously, you aren't that kind of idiot but as a new guy here with no history doing a very unorthodox build you can see how people could be cautious. Just remember, everyone is just trying to help you build the best vehicle possible. Thats our only motivation, its not like we get paid if we can keep you from killing yourself or anything. Sometimes people all do things the same way just because they are boring cowardly drones...and sometimes its because its a really bad idea not to do it the boring way. Its awesome that your willing to figure out which it is when it comes to bumpers. Personally, I don't have the money to experiment like that. If I destroy my frame I'm done with the hobby as I will never have enough free time and money to start over again on something that is just a fun car.
The oil cooler scoop on the other hand? I love it. Im still trying to figure out what do on mine to break up the flat polygon look of the front half. I don't believe in adding anything that doesn't have a function but I want something interesting at the same time.
And the shifter control? I love the look of it although it may be hard to use in practice.
You have any other chopper parts? it would be kind of cool if the whole thing ended up looking like maybe it was built from the wreckage of a crashed helicopter by some post apocalyptic engineer.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Good stuff guys. Military paint? Oh yea! I've got a bunch of Boeing sage that will be the main color. If you've ever seen the new desert colored chinooks flying over then you know know the color. A mod team got finished doing their thing at my work and our tool room couldn't legally put their leftover hazmat in the inventory. So I saved it from the trash heap. The amount of waste I see on a regular basis is pretty heart wrenching! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sandjunky
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2015
Posts: 292
Location: New Mexico
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Doctordreeann wrote: |
| Good stuff guys. Military paint? Oh yea! I've got a bunch of Boeing sage that will be the main color. If you've ever seen the new desert colored chinooks flying over then you know know the color. A mod team got finished doing their thing at my work and our tool room couldn't legally put their leftover hazmat in the inventory. So I saved it from the trash heap. The amount of waste I see on a regular basis is pretty heart wrenching! |
Dude, we decommissioned a ship that I served on in the Navy. I was shocked to see the stuff we were ordered to toss into the drink on the way to Virginia. A lot of it was antiquated technology used to maintain older systems, but the sheet metal alone was tons. Fraud, waste, and abuse... whatever. Its crazy! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| Sandjunky wrote: |
| Doctordreeann wrote: |
| Good stuff guys. Military paint? Oh yea! I've got a bunch of Boeing sage that will be the main color. If you've ever seen the new desert colored chinooks flying over then you know know the color. A mod team got finished doing their thing at my work and our tool room couldn't legally put their leftover hazmat in the inventory. So I saved it from the trash heap. The amount of waste I see on a regular basis is pretty heart wrenching! |
Dude, we decommissioned a ship that I served on in the Navy. I was shocked to see the stuff we were ordered to toss into the drink on the way to Virginia. A lot of it was antiquated technology used to maintain older systems, but the sheet metal alone was tons. Fraud, waste, and abuse... whatever. Its crazy! |
Yeah, I the scrapyard I used to work at was disgusting. One day I was put to work on a crate of bearings, 4 FOOT diameter ball bearings with the actuall balls being about 5" in diameter. I don't know what the heck they where for but they where brand new, greased, crated and packed in wax paper. They had to be worth thousands a piece. Just about made me sick to torch them in half.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
I've been pretty busy lately, but I have managed to get a little done. Added a few more sections of tubing, glassed and painted my oil cooler shroud, finished out my rear half fenders, and started positioning my cargo rack and windshield wire strikes. How's it look??
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
What do y'all know about that desert sage??
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12856
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
Not being critical but be careful with those ammo boxes, those sharp edges can remove large amounts of flesh pretty quickly if you start bouncing around.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doctordreeann
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2016
Posts: 29
Location: Huntsville, AL
|
| Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Sand rail rebuild |
|
|
| I guess I just like to live dangerously! Must be a product of growing up in a house without child proofing. Where do you keep your necessary items secured? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
