My 412 these days..

[raygreenwood]

Fantastic work....a couple of items.

For the gas flap spring......I have a spare I can get to you.

For the rear shocks.....and I do not recommend these to anyone.....but I have a set of KYB gas-a-just. ....NOS.....original equipment part #. I have no idea if they are any hood. Still in jthe boxes, still strapped down with the factory tether.

They will either work great.....or have short life. ....its a gamble. If the gas has not changed chambers and if the outer seal holds.....they could be good for 30k miles. The hassle is changing them again if they crap out. You can have them if you want them.

Warning.....the braided factory lines have been definately shown to be a risk for usage with alcohol fuels. Lifespan can be very short ....or normal. Just as many indicators for both. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

This is awesome, Ray. PM me whenyou have a chance and we'll coordinate. Lucky to have a mentor for this car.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

So, to sum up.... here is a 'final tour' of my '73 412. I'm now getting prepped to begin cleaning the crap that accumulated under the windshield and glass seals. Once that is complete, I'll jump into masking off the obvious areas.

A couple items I plan to keep intact but will mask off:

-Aluminum trim around windows with scrapers. It appears that these components are still functional, however, they are easily broken from what I've read.

-The striker plates will be cleaned and masked off

-All decals (i.e. Info on inside of fuel filler door)

-Threads for all screws/bolts remaining on body of car will be masked over to avoid 'clogging'.

I am really getting excited about the paint process and have put alot of faith in Maaco.

More information to come as we get closer to the end of the week..

As always, open to suggestions/feedback; everyone has been a great source source of Feedback!
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

The aluminum trim is really not that difficult. From memory...there is a clamping section on each one. Pop that off.....remove the door panel and drop te glass down and these should come off without bending. Its been a while but I have done it numerous times.

I agree about the decals...m.but put a scribe mark on each side of the striker plTes and remove them is what I would do. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Well yesterday was the next step in getting her ready for paint. Had two issues come to light:

1) The door seals were so bad, they came off in multiple pieces. The PO had put silicone caulk behind the various pieces to hold it in. So, Im left with no door seals and a ton of silicone to peel off. Any suggestions as to what to use as a retrofit?

2) Did my best to remove the ugly pin striping. Some of it took the paint with it as I pulled it off as gently as possible:

One benefit, under the pinstriping, I found the holes for the trim. Now I just need to decide if I am going to plug the holes or insert the clips with silicone so water doesnt get in through the holes. The other item to consider is that this car will rarely see rain.

_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

I used two different common profiles for my door seals from Auveco. They were "similar' enough to stock that with some fitting and work they seal far better than anything I have had on any of my type 4's.

They are still pliable since 1998. I will try to take some pictures and check my books for part #'s.

Also....the way to do this...is pull all the seals off...carefully align the door panel gaps and adjust the striker plates. When that is all perfect....paint it. Then apply the seals.

When you know your door position and gaps are perfect...then any serious closing issues are known to bee seal adjustment. Also...they will be tight for a couple of months until they form fit due to compression.

The nice thing about these seals is that they are neoprene closed cell foam with smooth, molded outsides....in other words...modern seal materials. They are superior to the original rubber seals from VW.

As others have found on other cars...unless the repop seals you buy are very superbly molded....even time will not get them to crush properly if they are too big in certain areas because EPDM rubber does not work like foam.
Ray

[ClassicCamper]

That is great news. Here's to hoping you can get the seal number from Auveco. Ill make sure I report back my findings. Thanks again.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[ClassicCamper]

In tandem with getting her ready for paint, I completed the final touches on the D-Jet FI system and am pleased with the final result. Over the past 12 months, I've been asking many questions in order to fully absorb and understand how the DJet system functions and how to troubleshoot it. I was determined to learn the system. I have 3 other Vehicles, all Ljet. I'm a self-proclaimed god with these systems. Well, seriously, I'm pretty confident with L- jet. Now, after working on a couple od Djets, I wanted to share what I've learned. I'm hoping this data will help others. I do have to say that Ray G has been a huge contributor to my success and my approach to fixing/diagnosing ones d jet systems. Here is my formula, I hope these touch points will help keep others systems running for years to come:

1) Never assume a poorly running engine is FI related. Eliminate the common culprits first:

Engine health: Check your compression. Ensure that you don't have any large variances between each cylinder. Adjust valves to .006" on a cold engine. Make sure that the intake runners have no leaks, paying special attention to the seals that connect the intake air plenum to the runners themselves. These get dry and crack over time.

Ignition system: (points fouled or stuck closed, cap, rotor, plugs, timing, coil, etc.) Troubleshooting instructions for these components are readily available online or in the Haynes manual.

Vacuum lines: This can be pricey, but worth the investment. If you have older, dry-rotted vacuum lines throughout the engine, you are best off taking the sting up front and investing in a properly color-coded set of new hoses which will work wonders and elimate vacuum leaks. If you do this piecemeal, you may end up getting frustrated by forever chasing elusive vacuum leaks. Be prepared to spend about 75.00 for a good set. If you would like to know where I found the hose kit, PM me, and I'll dig up the supplier's info. Further, you should check other parts of your engine for potential leaks that arent hose-related eg. Oil filler and dipstick rubber bellows (variant), breather box, pcv valve. Even the smallest leak will throw the system off causing poor performance.

Voltage: Most of these cars have original, 40+ Year old voltage regulators in them. Overtime, resistance builds up and the FI system can be robbed of the voltage necessary to keep the DJet from functioning optimally. There are some teriffic threads in this forum on how to ensure the system is getting the optimal amount of voltage to sustain a healthy running car. Further, a good battery is essential. You should also ensure the ground wire isn't rotted/fouled up, same applies to the ground strap that connects the engine to the transmission as well as the transmission to the body of the car. Finally, ensure the FI system is properly grounded, paying special attention to the 6 ground wires on the front, top part of the engine.

2) Now its time to assess engine performance after all of the above actions have been completed, tested, and parts relaced as necessary. If performance hasn't improved, I'd take a look at the FI system. Here is how I tackled it:

Fuel pressure: I measured fuel pressure from the small nipple located on the left fuel rail in between cylinders 3 and 4. I shoot for 25-28 psi, mine was right in the ball park

I took each injector out, but left them connected and placed a dixie cup under each exposed injector as a buddy turned the engine over. I noted the spray pattern and eye-balled the volume of fuel they sprayed out over the duration of 10 seconds of cranking over. This is where I discovered problems 1 and 2 : one injector didn't work at all, another one had a bad spray pattern, the fuel came out in a linear spray rather than a concical patten. I replaced all injectors with rebuilt ones.

Next I cheated and used this:

Result: I recieved a red light warning for the cylinder head temp sensor. So, I bought a new one and hooked the tester up, and got a green light. Same thing happened with the other temp sensor (number 1 temp sensor I believe is the proper name.). That gave me a yellow light, so I replaced that one and again got a green light once new one was installed. Finally, I was getting an error message (yellow light actually). This was related to the MPS and currently the crux of my problem.

Ray has so much valuable input on this, so I'm not going into tremendous detail here. The crux of the matter was that my 'vacuum signature' of my engine was on the low side. Ray gave me a technique for which to tune the pressure sensor per se to match that of my engine's signature. At first it was intimidating and tricky for me to do. Once I built up my confidence, I was able to adjust it easily.

All of the other tests passed with flying colors. So, I went from an extremely difficult car to start (and would not hold an idle) to a car that literally starts in just under 2 seconds:


Link


I hope this helps out (and encourages) more 411/412 owners to not be afraid of the FI system. Overall, its very robust. Thanks to all the folks that got me this far. I'm hoping to get the car to paint on Saturday. It's all a matter of how much taping, prep, and removing of parts I can get completed by tomorrow evening.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Doing well!. As you drive much more and tune more....you will find that D-jet can start even faster than that. Before I tore it all apart for its final restoration.....my engine would start...literally...on the first bump of the key. Right at...1.5 to 2.0 revolutions of the engine.

It actually started far faster than my 2006 Jetta snd my current pristine 2012 Golf.

D-jet can do this (when tuned out properly and in great mechanical condition)....like no other except CIS injection.....because of its paired injection cycle and "live" enrichment pulses from the TVS.

Last thing......NEVER set or allow your fuel pressure over 32 psi.....and only at 32 psi of you have an ACCURATE gauge with known calibration. The low impedance injectors revert to stream instead of spray right about,35 psi or higher.....when pulse width approaches 70% or higher.
That is partly to do with spring pressure and partly to do with the angle ground on the pintle.

28 psi is the spec for a reason. The idea of going to 30 psi to cover minor lean issues in worn engines....is an old mechanics trick...and legitimate.....but anything over that pressure. ..is risky if you have no idea how accurate your gauge is.
The trick is a stop gap so they do not have ro do involved testong, driving and adjusting of the MPS. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

[raygreenwood]

[ClassicCamper]

[[email protected]]

Don't let it stay in the sun long with the masking tape on . Will be a pain to remove.

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks for the tip and will do.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[raygreenwood]

Not to belabor the point...but just so you know where I am coming from with reference to your using the ASE 000 050 fuel injection tester unit.

I will correct myself a little better....as I was using a bit of hyperbole to make sure I get your attention with what I was writing.

The unit is not 100% worthless.....as Brad Anders notes on his excellent web site

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/testers.htm#VW1218

It is definitely better than the earlier and simpler Bosch testing units. Its main usefulness other than a full go/no-go/caution on component check....is that it tests functionality of all of the main board blocks in the ECU.

Its a component checker. As I noted .....its weakness is directly related to any weakness in the wiring loom connecting the unit...to the components.

Some of the other models Brad Anders has on the page above are really interesting because they allow you to actually run the car from the diagnostic unit ....and allow you to adjust actual injector pulsewidth while using controlled but variable vacuum on the MPS....so you can actually TUNE the MPS while running the car to match injector pulsewidth....say ...to an MPS you are replacing.

These are true tuning tools.

As I noted.....in this day and age....with most D-jet systems...because of
A. the harness condition and
B. the actual connector type used on the original harness and even on new build harnesses.....your readings can be suspect when using any of these tuning tools.

I am not telling you not to use them. I am telling you not to RELY on them until you have enough experience to know that all of your connections are perfect and all of the critical parts of the test unit are in calibration.

For instance....the internal vacuum pump is designed to test the MPS at a specific vacuum level. Do you know if the pump is stable, or the vacuum transducer still accurate (very common with vacuum sensing systems to be out of whack with age...just like pressure gauges)

I say Kudos that you bought a new harness last year.

But....as I have noted....and as Dan and Neena found out last week by taking their type 3 by Jim Adneys place before they started their long roadtrip.....even with a brand new harness that they also have bought....they found several poor connections that were a part of their problem. That is teh drawback of the female connector design.

These were brand new parts and the STILL had a connectivity issue. It was not a harness construction or crimp quality issue.

I do not know which tester Jim Adney uses....but as I noted to Dan several times over the six month ordeal....with only 23 wires in the whole system....these faulty connections should have and could have been found.... 5 months ago with a simple fit check of the female connectors.
20 minutes work tops....for the whole system.

Because of the design of the female connectors in the D-jet system which are not anywhere near as uniform from connector to connector as something more modern....occasionally....a brand new female connector ...especially on a worn/older male pin of a component...can have a loose or poor fit even after the first couple of cycles of plugging and unplugging.

If I were going to use a unit like the ASE 000 050.....I would circumvent the possible weaknesses of the system by FIRST:

1. with a REAL pressure gauge...of minimum 1A or 2A rating...check and set fuel pressure and make sure its stable.

2. With a vacuum gauge of similar rating...check and get an idea of what the engines vacuum range is.

3. Use that same vacuum gauge to see that the ASE 000 050 pump output is uniform

4. And this is most important....using a pin-out tool...remove all 23 female connectors from their plugs one at a time and TIGHTEN the rolled springs flanges on them....WHILE they are plugged onto a scrap male pin that has been sanded with 1000 grit paper to be about .001"-.002" thinner than normal.
This insures a tight precision fit of all harness plugs onto the male pins.

Clean the ECU end connectors with a soft pink eraser and make sure all of the ECU plug pins are at the same level of "bent"/tension and that the gap between them is narrower than the circuit board edge.

When all of this is done....you have insured that the ECU function check of the ASE 000 050....is really telling you the truth.

The item I am also getting at though....is that outside of the function check of the ECU by using the ASE 000 050 or similar unit.....the simplest, fastest and most accurate check of all other components EXCEPT the ECU can be done instantly ...on the spot...when you unplug the component to clean and tighten the female connectors....you can very simply plug in your voltmeter leads to the part (injector, sensor 1 and 2, MPS or TVS)....by having a set of leads that have a D-jet female terminal crimped on the ends.

This also allows you to evaluate the cleanliness of the male pin in the component and also allows you to evaluate the fit of the female connector on your voltmeter leads and tighten if necessary.

Oh...and the BEST masking tape I have found to use for painting is Frogtape
http://www.frogtape.com/

FAR, FAR, FAR superior to the 3M blue painters masking tape. Has no issues out in the heat...comes in multi surface higher tack (green) and low tack smoother, delicate surface tape. Both have a sharper edge than 3M blue painters tape.

You can but it at home depot.
Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Figured I'd share the progress of my 412 build. If you made it through the 7 odd pages of my journey, I'd love to hear from you and get feedback. Hopefully, the knowledge transfer will help guide you through troubleshooting issues. So, I have some progress photos as well as random questions that I'll ask as I go. Once all of the replies are gathered, I'd be glad to post as its own topic at a future point.

Today is like Christmas in July for me. I finally saved up enough cash to get the car painted. (granted, it's at Maa@@, but I have hope they'll do a nice job). The tow truck is coming in 4 hours and I'm wide awake like a little kid. I hoped to get it done much sooner, but after combing through these forums, I had to regroup and take another approach. The "Greenwood Method" cost me more than I expected, actually a lot more. However, its the best preventative advice I've taken in many years, and will most certainly save me a fortune in the long run. I thought I could just drive it. The PO had a youtube video of the car in motion, joyfully cruising down the road. It appeared as though she may need an oil change and then it's ready to roll indefinitely. The seller was truthful and honest; I was just ignorant.

My final note on this subject: Greenwood's rap on 'things to do before you buy / drive VW Type 4' applied to me about 90% of the time. So, like a dumb ass, I only budgeted $150.00 for a general tune up upon purchase, then off to paint. NOT. If I didn't make Ray's recommended 'fixes' prior to driving it, I know enough about cars to realize that I'd be plagued with a constant cascade of worn parts, and hand-fabricating unobtanium parts in a rush. I bit the bullet and did most of those tasks first. It set me back financially, but if I didn't address the issues up front, I would have put a For Sale sign on it. I was bummed when I diagnosed and found my engine is getting tired. I'm saving for a longblock and when installed, there will be a painstakingly fine-tuned D-Jetronic FI set-up waiting for it. Glad I took Ray's advice; can't thank the guy enough. I'm now getting uberfamiliar with the car as I make all these fixes. Again, thx RG and team T4. I think there should be a 'things to think about before buying this type of car' sticky at the beginning of this forum. IMHO, Type 4's are way too rare to be a practice car/first car or buy and drive.

Moving on to progress - recruited some good buddies to assist with final prep:

Had no clue what they were getting into. So hot and humid, even talking made you sweat.

I'm going to reupholster the seats most likely when car is in paint. I have to remove the headrests. How do they come off? It looks like pipes are bent inside the seat:

Suggestions?


The next item is the tailpipe. I paid a lot of money for a new one from B^* De*+T. Once it's bolted on, it points downward. Totally annoys me. BD claims that all of their stock looks the same:

In addition to its crappy aesthetics, the tailpipe vibrates against the gas heater exhaust. I DO plan on using the heck out of the heater this winter. The BA4 rebuild was my one of my favorite parts of the resto thus far. Any ideas?

Here's some random shots of tonight's final paint prep:

Nose all wrapped.

Seats out except driver. Plus, I wrapped up ECU to keep water/moisture out.

Doors prepped. Wasn't happy taping the aluminum trim around door windows, however, removal wayyyyy to difficult for me. Each time I gingerly attempted to remove, it bent.

Trunk. All labels, placards, etc. were taped.

Rear hatch latches removed and strapped down.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert

[Lars S]

Nice job done! Longing for to se the final result.

As for the tailpipe I have been there to, cut the tube, rotate it a bit and weld it back.

The neckrests should, if they are of the same type as my 412 has got, have release buttons on the wery top of each tube facing inside towards each other...almost hidden from neckrest vinyl (at the ends of the zip)

Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[ClassicCamper]

Thank you for the response Lars. I will check headrest later today.
_________________
1973 412 Wagon
1976 Westy
1978 SB Vert