Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
6v starter wiring issue
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Put in a new starter in December. Went to drive my car the other day and got nothing but clicking. Exchanged my old starter for a new one and this one has only one option for a female end for the ignition wire where as my other had 3 plugs. Put everything together and went to put the battery terminals back on and the car was attempting to start without the key in the ignition. I'm assuming some wires are crossed somewhere but don't know how that could be. Here is a picture of how I have it installed. Anyone have any ideas of what's going on. Thanks in advance.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by static337 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Also just to add. The last starter worked perfectly fine with no issues before it failed. And I haven't done anything to the wiring but change out the starter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

cant really see what you got hooked up there. the key switch wires should be a spade terminal, one of the red wires. the other ed wire should be aring termination and it is connected to the same stud as the big fat blaxk wire that is from the battery.

dont know what you mean about the old starter having three plugs????? got a photo of the old one?

if you hooked it up as stated above, all should be fine. you could have a defective key switch, but it is rare for them to fail shorted out. you could have a defective starter solinoid, dispite it being new.

remove the wires and ohm out to between the spade terminal and the stud terminal that has the black wire on it, if it is not open circuit, the starter soliniod is defective. also make sure you dont have power on the red wire from the key switch when that wire is removed from the soliniods spade terminal, if you do have volts on it, then you maybe a have a defective jey switch.


good luck

ps also make sure the key switch wire at the soliniod is not bent such that is touching the black wire nor the other red wire, that will also cause this failure.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

What year is your car?

The wire that goes to the generator/regulator connects to the big fat battery terminal "30"

The wire from the switch attaches to the terminal marked "50" (spade type)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483


Last edited by flyboy161 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Definitely have everything hooked up right according to that diagram. Need to double check that the ignition wire isn't touching anything. Then narrow it down to the starter silinoid or the key switch. Thanks for all the help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33875
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

I bet the wire from the starter switch is contacting the main (battery) terminal on the solenoid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrism0107
Samba Member


Joined: June 15, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego
chrism0107 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Have you checked the grounding strap on the transmission that could be your problem dirty and corroded connections are possible
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Turned out to be the ignition wire was touching the other wires somehow the spade connector was bent in. Now all I'm getting is a clunk from the starter. Have new battery terminals. A freshly charged battery. I'm hoping this starter is not bad too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Put the car in neutral. Set the parking brake. Chock the wheels. Double check neutral. Turn the ignition on, crawl underneath with a screwdriver and jump across the battery terminal on the solenoid to terminal 50. If the car cranks you have a bad solenoid out of the box. It happens.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bluebus86
Banned


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075

bluebus86 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

maybe the gear on the starter is not engaging, wrong gear, buggered teeth. ???
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33875
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

How does your starter bushing look?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Definitely think it has to be a bad silonoid as the car was attempting to turn over no problem when the ignition spade was touching the other wires correct me if I'm wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Amperage is the key to making the solenoid work. You might be suffering from dirty connections at the ignition switch or even the fuse block.. Too much voltage drop can cause this issue. You say the car set up awhile.

Clean all the connections with a small wire brush. Disconnect the battery first. Then make sure the terminal for the "15" wire at the switch and where it comes from on the fuse block is shiny clean. Repeat for terminal "30" and terminal "50" at the switch. Clean up that terminal "50" at the starter.

Retry and report back the results.

Remember, electrons don't like to travel through corrosion. If your spade terminals and connectors look brown and not shiny gold, they are impeding the flow of electrons.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Like I said, it takes amperage to make things move. One ampere is approximately equivalent to 6.2415093×10 to 18th power electrons moving in one second through a point in time. That's a lot of electrons. If the starter solenoid is rated at 10 amps, then that number is multiplied by 10 and that's a lot of electrons. Any corrosion inhibits the number of electrons and once it drops below the rating of the solenoid you get a clunk, but no finished action.

Voltage drop is a way of checking for a problem. Put a voltmeter red lead on terminal 15 on the ignition switch and the black lead on terminal 50 on the ignition switch. Set the meter on volts and read the meter whilst you turn the switch to start. It should read zero. If it reads anything above zero, that is a voltage drop and is showing that the switch is corroded. Either internally, or at the connections.

Same goes for the wire from terminal 50 back to the starter. If it is corroded internally, then a meter reading my will show above zero volts from one end to the other.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Thank you for the info. I'll take a look at all of the connections and clean them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrism0107
Samba Member


Joined: June 15, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego
chrism0107 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

+1 on ktphil check your starter bushing, after seeing his recommendation I recall having an issue like yours and a new bushing corrected it. also check for the bolt for the solenoid arm pivot. I disassembled mine to clean it up once and forgot to reinstall and had issues. until I removed the starter and saw the bolt/screw missing. found it sitting on my bench vice where I had left it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Here's an update. Cleaned all the wiring at the switch and fuse block. Cleaned the ground wire at the tranny. Put new ends on the ignition switch wire at the starter. Now the car will crank over but it is very weak. Not enough to get the car started. Battery was just charged and tested good a couple of days ago. Also starter bushing is good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

Good, you are on the right track.

Now clean all the heavy red wiring terminals and connections per the following diagram.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You'll want to do this procedure of cleaning anyway, because clearly it makes a difference. If you don't clean all those heavy red terminals the following test could be misleading. Then if it still cranks weakly, you can eliminate the switch as a culprit by taking the 30 wire and connect it directly to the 50 wire and see how it cranks.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
static337
Samba Member


Joined: December 04, 2015
Posts: 106
Location: United States
static337 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

So touch the generator wire to the ignition wire or use a screwdriver to jump it across? Key in terms on position?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v starter wiring issue Reply with quote

A screwdriver across the ignition switch terminals would be fine. Or disconnect them and touch them together.

And actually, looking at the diagram it goes from battery to generator, to headlight switch to fuse block to ignition switch and then back to the starter. That's a lot of connections between battery and solenoid. So, technically it's the fuse block wire to the solenoid wire.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.